Sex, Drugs, & Soul

106. Are Desires How God Speaks to Us? | Leola on Trust, Devotion, & Divine Redirection

• Kristin Birdwell • Season 4 • Episode 20

Share episode

“The longer you stay on the wrong train, the more expensive it is to get home.”

In this episode, I sit down with Leola, tantra teacher, bestselling author, and host of Talk Tantra To Me, for a conversation that gently roasts manifestation culture, flirts with devotion, and asks an interesting question: What if desire is how God speaks to us?

We explore:
- Why your desires are rarely about the thing (sorry)
- How control issues are often just trust wounds in a trench coat
- The difference between egoic craving and soul-level longing
- Why “manifesting harder” might actually be anxiety in lingerie
- How surrender doesn’t mean giving up — it means giving over
- God as lover, leader, and the one who may lovingly wreck your vision board
- Why the body is still the most avoided spiritual teacher in the room
- And what happens when you stop seducing outcomes and start seducing truth...

This episode is for you if..
- You’re tired of forcing things to happen
- You secretly suspect desire isn’t the villain
- Your vision board needs a gentle exorcism
- Or you’re ready to trust something wiser than your ego

It’s deep. It’s funny. It may lovingly call you out. 

Listen if you’re ready to stop begging the universe & start having an honest conversation with it.

🎧 Press play. Listen to the whisper...don't wait for the yell. 

Timestamps:
01:30 – What’s making Leola feel most alive right now
06:30 – The Three-Minute Game (intimacy exercise)
09:45 – God as a domme + resistance to surrender
13:20 – Finding God in the body
16:00 – Desire vs. egoic craving
19:50 – Becoming a slave to desire
25:40 – Receiving love & nervous system healing
30:15 – Relationship patterns & self-audit
33:50 – When a vision dies, grief, & trust
38:45 – Trusting the nudge
44:30 – Devotion through the tantric lens
50:20 – If God had a dating profile…

Connect with Leola:
Website: talktantratome.com
IG: https://www.instagram.com/talktantratome 

Support the Pod: $$$
Venmo: @hillbilly-healer
PayPal: @KristinBirdwellLLC
CashApp: $KristinBirdwell

Connect with Kristin:
Website - https://www.kristinbirdwell.com/
Instagram - http://instagram.com/kristinbirdwell_
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@sexdrugssoul

For all the peptide goodies, join me on Ellie MD.
https://elliemd.com/kristinbirdwell

Kristin's Best-Selling Book:
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sex, Drugs, & Soul on Amazon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify Audiobook Link⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Subscribe to the Podcast:
YouTube
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

...

Kristin:

Welcome to Sex, Drugs, and Soul, the sacred sensual space for wild ones, truth tellers, taboo dancers, and rebels with soul. I'm your host, Kristen Birdwell, best-selling author, mystic, tantrica, and professional line blurrer between the profane and the profound. For years I thought I had to choose to be the good girl or the wild one, to be spiritual or sensual, polished or powerful. But I've learned the magic lives in the both hand in the mess, the mystery, the mischief, and in embracing our messy humanness. This podcast is where healing gets real. Self-discovery gets juicy, and shame gets kicked to the damn curve. Whether I'm flying solo or vibing with fellow seekers, healers, experts, and pleasure revolutionaries, we dive deep into the beautifully messy intersection of spirituality, sexuality, and self-expression. Because your body isn't too much. Your story isn't too messy, and your truth that's holy. I'm here today. My microphone just fell down, and that's kind of how I'm feeling a little bit right now, too. I'm coming off of what I told Leola is a Hunter S. Thompson style weekend, or where he was my spirit animal. And I can't get this thing to stay. We're back in business. And um I took this like 1906 genius pill, so it's giving me a little cotton mouth and flutteries, but I'm so excited to have my teacher on today. Um, she's also a best-selling author. She's um on the podcast or podcast host of Talk Taunter to me. And like, what else do we want to go with?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you were on that podcast. Yeah. Talk Tantra to me. Yeah. It was a great episode. From Sugar Baby to Pleasure Priestess.

Kristin:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Such a good, such a good title. I think I was on this podcast too, but before you had it in person, which was great. So we kind of laid the groundwork there.

Kristin:

Yeah. Yeah. It's your second time. Yep. I like it better in person. Gives more of a better, I don't know, just level of presence for me.

SPEAKER_02:

It does. And I really like the colors and the vibe that you put in here. It matches your branding perfectly.

Kristin:

Thank you. I'm hoping, yeah. I'm hoping to get some sponsors. That's why I have this lovely Hayo can standing ease in here. I'm going to reach out to them and be like, look how good. Hayo, look at this. Look how good you look. Oh, so I've been loving seeing what you posted online recently, and I'd love to explore that. But first, I'm going to ask you what's turning you on in life right now or what's making you feel the most alive?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Yeah. I love this question. So I am creating life right now, which is cool. I'm 13 weeks pregnant. Um, so that makes you feel pretty fucking alive, I gotta say. Um, it also feels it feels many things. Um, I don't even know where to start with that. Um, but it's also really challenging. And I think that it's in those moments of that you can feel the most alive, that there can be a portal into such a deep level of presence, like full vulnerability. A couple hours ago, I was like sobbing in my husband's lap and like feeling the deep well of fear and like sadness in my body. And it was like, ooh, like, can I like really go into that and really feel that? Because only someone that's as alive, that's like fully present in this moment can go there. And like, what a gift that is. So that's a beautiful meditation practice. But I would say what's turning me on the most in this season is making out with my husband for sure. There are some, there are, there are like lots of ups and downs in pregnancy, and there are many um positive side effects and many negative side effects. But one of my favorite positive side effects is kissing my husband. Like yesterday we were kissing and I was like, it's different. It's so different when I'm pregnant. Like, I don't know. It's and I asked him, I was like, is it different for you? And he was like, not really. I was like, okay, it's just me and my hormones. Um, but yeah, it's a nice little injection of oxytocin and serotonin for me, which it always was, but maybe I don't know what it is. I don't know the if it's his DNA swirling inside of me reacting or what. But that is really delicious in the season. Yeah.

Kristin:

I was curious if it had like impacted your libido in some way.

SPEAKER_02:

Like you know, so they say that the second trimester is the sexy trimester. Um, and that's where I'm I technically started that trimester this week. Um, thus far, it has not been my experience that I've been more sexual or horny at all. But the first trimester, for a lot of women, you're pretty, you're feeling pretty ill. Like it feels like you're recovering from for me, it's felt like I've been like recovering from a stomach flu for like two months.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh.

SPEAKER_02:

And it's just not the time that like you feel the most sexual, but we've also had some great intimate moments. And we have like a really beautiful intimate practice that we do multiple times a week that isn't focused on penetrative sex or creating an orgasm. It's really about us just connecting and getting our bodies together. And that's been really good. Um so we'll see. Also, they say if you're having a boy, you get more sexual because you have all the testosterone in your body. Um, so and I'm having a girl. So do you all have a name picked up? We do. Okay. I'm not gonna share it, but we do. I actually mentioned it in Pleasure Parisa. So you, but like the last time we were running. So you might sleep and find out, but I'm not gonna say it on the back.

Kristin:

Totally get and respect that. I'd love to share the connective exercise. I think is it the same one you dropped in the group chat? Okay, yeah, I would love to share that with the people tuning in.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, absolutely. So it's called the three-minute game, which is based on and it comes from the lineage of the wheel of consent, um, which is an amazing body of work. Uh, but it's basically a really short and powerful exercise that's a dyadic exercise, so it's a coupled exercise. Um, but you just get so much juice out of it for how little effort it takes. And I mean, time and time again, you come out the other side feeling so nourished. Um, both partners too. And the reason that is, is because the exercise is set up so that both people really get an opportunity to express what they could really um benefit from in that moment, whether it is something more sexy and sexual or something more platonic or sensual or anywhere in between. So it's four rounds of three minutes. It's called the three-minute game, but there's actually four rounds. So four times three, 12 minutes. I would say takes 15 minutes because you've got some time in between each round. Um, but I mean 15 minutes. Like everyone says, not everyone, a lot of married couples, especially if they as they have kids and as time goes on, intimacy falls to the wayside because life is just so full and it's it's it's hard to make time. But you can make time for 15 minutes, right? So that's why I love this exercise, is it's short and it packs a punch at the same time. But essentially, um, the first two rounds, each partner asks the question what would you like to receive from me for the next three minutes? So you get to think about as the receiver in that moment what is gonna be the most nourishing or enlivening for me in this moment. And so some days I say, I would like a foot massage, or I would like for you to tickle my back, or I would like you to stare into my eyes and give me affirmations for three minutes, especially if I'm feeling particularly drained, undernourished, or just out of my body and need to get into my body. But other days I'm like really ready to dive right into some sensual, sexy action and I might request him to go down on me for three minutes, um, which is also fun because it like it's three minutes doesn't sound like a lot of time and it does go by really fast, but it kind of also creates this like contained teasing energy. Um, and it's also nice because in those three minute increments, you fully go in, like you fully commit more than you might normally because you know it's three minutes and there's a timer that's gonna go off. So I really like it. So you do one round of each person getting to receive what they want for three minutes. Then the last two rounds, each partner asks, What would you like to do to me for the next three minutes? What would you like to do to me for the next three minutes? So this is the opportunity for each partner to feel into how could I interact with this person in a way that gives me pleasure? Uh so this could look like, I really want to slap your ass and give you some spankins for three minutes, or I just want to squeeze your boobies, or um, I'm ravenous for your cop. Like it and it does again, it doesn't have to be sexual. It could also be, you know, I did for my husband, I was like, I would love to just do like a pressure point massage on your head for three minutes. Like that sounds like chill for me, but also like a way that I could really support you. And I know that he likes that. So um, so yeah, that's that's the the second round. You each get a chance to ask that question. Um, so yeah, that's the three-minute game. We do it right now, we're doing it three times a week. So we're doing it Sunday, Tuesday, and Thursday. And it's just whenever we get into bed for the night, we don't have like a specific time. Sometimes it leads to more intimacy, sometimes it leads to penetrative sex. I would say more than half the time it doesn't, but what it has done is it's really fortified our connection in this season where a lot is shifting and changing for us physically, emotionally, energetically, spiritually. And it's also created more openings for us to connect outside of that time as well.

Kristin:

I love that. I may try it out this weekend. I'm going to just a little getaway to bathroom to go to the painted porch with my new booting.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, that's right. I love that. Yeah. Bathrobe's nice.

Kristin:

Yeah. We're gonna Airbnb year hotel. And I guess if it doesn't freeze over there. Um, and we want to go to like the bookstore and stay there forever. Um, and then I'll introduce this game. Oh, great. Maybe some mushies.

SPEAKER_02:

That's perfect. And you can also do it as like the five-minute game or the 20-minute game or whatever, however you want to adapt it. Um, I'm always like trying to like negotiate, like, let's do five minutes. Um, but my husband's a very like, let's not like we can always do more after, just like chill. Um so, anyways, but it it depends on what kind of works for you and your relationship and how much time you have, but it's a really great warm-up activity, and it's also a really great standalone activity.

Kristin:

Yeah, I love it. And it's so simple to do. Um, okay, so and you said something about spanking. So that kind of spurred. I'm like, I kind of want to go into the Goddess of Dom or Goddess Kinky stuff that I've been seeing like in my inbox from you or on your Instagram. And I'm like, yes, please show me how to surrender more. Spank me, God.

SPEAKER_02:

Show me how to surrender more as we like rip our chairs. Um, yeah, I mean, just to start off, I have been the most resistant person to surrender. Um, so I just want to lay that groundwork. I am someone that still is uh developing a relationship with that concept. Uh, and I think that a lot of that comes from growing up in an environment where I felt so out of control um and so unsafe. And so, to me, to surrender would be a way that I would be disempowered and a way, like this is how I intellectualized surrender for so many years, uh, especially to God. Like, I was like, why would I give my power to some white man in the sky? Like, I don't fully trust authority because all of the authority in my life has kind of let me down and one, not all of the authority, but a lot of authority in my life has let me down in one way or another. So I really struggled with the concept of surrender, of devotion for that reason. And then I discovered spirituality and tantra, and the concept of your higher self came into my awareness. And that I liked. I was like, oh, I can surrender to the godliness in me. I can see that there's like an inner goddess, there's an inner higher self, a part of me, a sliver of source, if you will, that I can get behind. And that kind of opened my door into the world of surrender and seeing that possibility and giving my life, giving my power to something greater. Um, and over time I healed my relationship to religion and Jesus and authority to a degree. Um, and that's where I feel like now it's like, yeah, God's my homie and he can hold my shit better than I can. So I'm just gonna let it go. You know what I mean? Like, God's plan is better than my plan. And like that has been shown to me time and time and time again. And rather than resist that truth, what if I could find that in my own body? Because I think that that's the other thing too, that a lot of people kind of cop out with like God. They're like, oh, well, I prayed, so I checked the box. It's in God's hands now. Which to a degree, sure. Like it depends on what's going on, right? Like there are some things that are within that you are more of a like it's a co-creation, right? Like to me, in any given moment, we are co-creating with a higher source that we also can access in our own bodies. And um yeah, so I forgot where I was going with this, but yeah, I'll just sparse the question.

Kristin:

It's far as a question for me of like getting in tune with that body or the feeling that um highest self or godliness within ourselves instead of set up only in the mind or mental arena. Um, what worked for you?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So I remembered what I was gonna say too, or where I was going. I was talking about like copping out, right? Like we can say, I prayed, so like it's all good, but that's not really how it works a lot of the time because we we are again co-creating. So it's like, how can I continue to not just like give it to God and say, cool, you got it? And now, how can I also be devotional to the path that God is laying out before me and not just like, you know, say you've got it? Because we're also, we have, you know, free will and we want to learn and to grow. And we can't do that if we just give someone else all of the power, right? Like we also get to be empowered with the godliness in us. So, to answer your question, what is work for me and finding God in my body? Honestly, um, there's been a few things. So finding Tantra was huge, obviously, uh, because that's when I started to really get in touch with uh desire and my sexuality uh and my sensuality, which are all vehicles to be more embodied and to invite God into the body. Because so many of us learn that our sexuality, sensuality, naked bodies are bad, wrong, shameful, dangerous, sinful, whatever. And so we learn about our bodies and we start to interact with our bodies when we come of age behind closed doors, in the dark, trying to get it over with as fast as possible. Long showers. Hiding the evidence, like stifling our expression. And we don't realize that we're carrying that shame into our adulthood. And also, this life force energy is deeply spiritual. It's deeply godly, which is hard to believe for a lot of us because many of us are conditioned from a young age to believe again that sexuality is sinful or it's only okay within a certain parameter that doesn't really fall into a very practical modern approach. And so when you start to reorient spirituality and sexuality and see that they're deep allies, your whole life can change. Like, how can this energy not be deeply spiritual if it's the energy that God used to literally make us? Like we're all here because two people decided to have sex. Like this is by God's design. And it's my belief, like conspiracy theorists here, that we've been told otherwise by mostly religion, but also, you know, this has been um perpetuated by the government and by media, et cetera. But they've taught us to be afraid of this part of ourselves because if we are afraid of it, then we're not gonna go near it, and then we're not gonna master it, and then we're gonna be disempowered. Like, what better way to make people, you know, disempower than by making them afraid of the very energy that brought them into this world and is like the vehicle for creation in our world? In Tantra, they say that every sexual interaction is procreative in nature. So self-pleasure, non-penetrative sex, like any type of sexual intimacy or intimacy where you're connecting to this life force energy is procreative in nature. So even if you're not intentionally trying to create a living, breathing baby, you have the free will to harness that energy and direct it to other parts of your life or the world that you're wanting to see shift, change, creation, evolution in.

Kristin:

Yeah. I've just been experiencing a little bit of that lately. Like last night, I was like, whoa, I was right after we had sex, I burst into tears. And I was like, I'm like, why would this is so deep? And I'm like, I'm not. He's like, I'm here, I'm saying you're safe. I'm like, I know it's not that. I'm like, this is good, I promise. Just feel so connected. Um, I guess where was I gonna go with that? Um yeah, yeah, desires. Like, so do you believe that those desires that we have within us are like little nudges or whispers from our higher higher self if we're going through it like with a curiosity lens, or um, or how to tell, you know, is this coming from like my higher self or is it like more egoic, or is the egoic even like a bad thing necessarily? You know?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, what do we, what do I do with this hedonistic part of myself? Right. And again, it's an interesting place to be in because a lot of us, and I think especially women, have grown up um being taught that our desires are selfish or wrong and to kind of placate into people, please, et cetera. And um, so we have this an inherent sh like resistance or shame to our desires at the gecko. Um, and the thing about desires is that they're layered, right? So I'm all about following your desires, but to me, there's a curiosity around what is your relationship to your desires? Do you actually have a relationship to your desires? Because, you know, some crackhead could say, I'm desiring an eight ball, and it's like, cool. You know, what is the deeper longing beneath that desire? And what is your relationship to that deeper longing? And this is something that I'm feeling pulled to actually write a book about because it's been a big part of my life. Like, you know, on one end, for me to get to a space where I could actually have a relationship with my desire and not be a slave to them and not ignore or suppress them. And then also seeing my husband and his relationship to desire, he's um, he's was an alcohol. I mean, he is. An alcoholic. They say, like, you're not like an alcoholic and then not an alcoholic, but he's not like he's, you know, recovery. He's, you know, and that's like a lifelong path. Um, and to see kind of his path with desire and and how where that's led him and his process of finding out, oh, actually, my desire for different substances or different behaviors was a desire for control, it would, which was a desire to uh escape certain feelings that I never had a safe space to express or to touch or to go near in my home growing up. And so to me, your desires are this ping that's like, hey, pay attention. I have something to say. And generally, there's almost always at least one or two layers deep deeper that you can go from that surface level desire. Your desires are very rarely about the thing that you think that you want, it's about something deeper.

Kristin:

Yeah. Like maybe the way it's gonna make me feel or the way I think it's gonna make me feel on the other side of it once I get the thing.

SPEAKER_02:

If I have this thing, then I'll be okay. If I have this thing, then everything will be solved. And that's where you become a slave to your desire because you're you then become obsessed with it. And once you get it, it's rarely enough. There's always gonna be another, like you're gonna keep wanting it until you get to that deeper layer. So that's one of the common pitfalls is becoming a slave to your desires. The other is the avoiding and the suppressing of the desires, which we also see a lot of. And we see a lot of that in like the discipline world, like the highly disciplined. And like, don't get me wrong, I think discipline has a place. I think that being diligent and consistent is important. Um, but I like it better when it's coming from a more devotional place because then it's connected to the deeper longing. There's like a heart to it. Because when we're just, you know, suppressing our surface level desires, we're ignoring God. We're ignoring that deeper well within us, and it's leading us farther away from where we actually need to go or where we're actually, where God actually wants to take us, or your higher self or spirit or the universe, whatever you believe in. I say God now because it's just the easiest thing to say, but I wouldn't have said that like four or five years ago. So um, anyways, the longer that you stay on the wrong train, the more expensive it is to get home. So it's it's good to just notice the desire and have a relationship with it, get intimate with it. Not all of your desires are meant to be satisfied in that moment. A lot of them just want to be understood.

Kristin:

Yeah. It kind of makes me think because I feel like we're in vision board season, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Vision board season. Maybe January.

Kristin:

Yeah. So it's like um, those manifestations. I guess asking yourself, is that trying to serve like one of those desires or you know, getting clear on it? Um, I guess, yeah, going a little bit deeper on the manifestations. Or I can also see where the manifesting thing could be a way to control or an attempt to control.

unknown:

Yeah.

Kristin:

Um, or pouring so much energy into it.

SPEAKER_02:

I have another thought on this, if you don't mind. I also want to be clear, too, that I'm not a no to friv frivolous desire or like I like shiny things, I drive a Porsche, I love my my little Louis Vuitton bag over there. You know, all of that. So it's not to say that you can't have the things that you want that maybe your ego is stroked by. Um, but I like to say that there's a possibility to have something called ego on purpose, right? And there's a reason that you want the things that you want. So let yourself want those things. But again, get curious about, you know, the deeper desire there. And the story that I like to tell about this is um deeply related. I mean, I have several stories about this, but one story that I guess I'll share now, sex magic, right? Sex magic based on the law of attraction. Um, I can go more into what that is, but I felt guilty for a long time when I was doing sex magic. If I was trying to manifest a partner, um, I thought, well, I should be using my sex magic to, you know, I should send all of that energy to create more world peace and free all of the slave children in the world. And, you know, which is true. And I will also send my sex magic there. But to me, it felt selfish. And also I felt I really judged my longing for a partner. I was like, this is me being needy and being um like I should, I should just need me. Like I shouldn't need, like, yeah, it'll happen when it's meant to happen. Like, I just felt so judgmental of myself for wanting that. You know, it's like I'm an I'm an independent woman and like I should be using this energy for better things, quote unquote. But in reality, my relationship has added so much good to the world. It's made me a better teacher, a better facilitator. It's been evidence for I don't know, so many people of what's possible in relationship in devotion. We're creating life. I think that that's one of the most powerful things that you can do today is like create life and raise those children really well to be loving, kind people. Um so yeah, at the end of the day, two people that are really behind a mission like can do so much more. One plus one equals three, right? So that's our motto. So actually allowing myself to want the thing that I want has so astronomically increased my capacity to make impact in this world. Um, and that wouldn't be there if I didn't finally say, okay, I need to trust this longing and just go there and like let myself want it and let myself see that there's a higher purpose running through me related to that desire that I wasn't even sure of yet. Like I had an inkling, but the way that my um relationship has impacted my life and the people around me's life and my business's life and what's possible is pretty insane. And I would not have known that before. So sometimes there's this like, I've got to kind of like blindly trust my desire to a degree in trusting that God put that desire there for a reason as well. So it's this balance, it's this balance of self-awareness and calibration.

Kristin:

Yeah, I feel like I'm trying to calibrate myself with this new year in a way, for sure. Cause I'm like, okay, Jesus God, take the wheel, but then I have moments where I feel like I'm prying my fingers off the steering wheel. Yep. Um, and then as you were speaking, the thing, like just the longing came up for it. It sounds like giving ourselves permission to have the desire. But I know for me, I feel like sometimes my longing for something feels like it's prolonging it. You know what I mean? Like the longing or the feeling of not having the relationship or that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I mean, I could be wrong, but that sounds a little bit like that pitfall of like becoming a slave to the desire. Like when I have this thing, then I'll be okay. And I'm kind of just like, oh, I need it, you know, which I validate. Like I've been there a lot, you know? Um, so I don't want to discount that. And sometimes you just gotta be like, yes, I accept the fact that this desire is so freaking big in my heart and I'm not gonna avoid it. I'm gonna fully let it be there and feel that coursing through my body. And sometimes that's the medicine. And sometimes the medicine is saying, All right, enough is enough. Um, it's in your hands, God. So I'm gonna chill out. Like you, it's on you. If you want me to have this, you're gonna make it happen. And if you don't, then please take that desire out of my heart.

Kristin:

Mm-hmm. So yeah, I did some uh Neville Goddard. I was like, I was like, okay, I've got to release or what felt like an attachment to it, right? And then uh saying goodnight, I was like, okay, if I'm acting as if I'm already I already have the relationship that I want, um, okay, what would I do? How would I go about and be in my world? Yeah. And so I was like, good night, babe, to my pillow one night. Cute. Um, and then I also wanted to meet someone organically, and I uh kind of pursued it. Yeah, I did. And I will say, like, y'all, your St. Andrew's relationship has definitely been like um inspiring to witness. And I'm like, that, I want some of that. Yep. Um, and it's this start of this new relationship has also been like super vulnerable and scary as fuck. So it's like I feel like there's a um bit of can we accept or receive? And maybe we can speak to the art of receiving more because if we get the thing and it also scares us, we don't want to run away from it, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Yep. Yeah, that's a huge, huge piece, the art of receiving. And that's something that I've also deeply struggled with in the early stages of Andrew and I's relationship. It was like the other shoe's gonna drop. I just know it. I know it. I'm scanning the environment. I'm looking for all of the ways that he could fuck up and waiting for them to happen, to the point that it was like deeply impacting our relationship. Um, I ended up having someone on my podcast and we talked about relationship anxiety, and that really helped a lot. I think that a lot of the receiving has to do with healing your nervous system. Uh, receiving is something that is deeply vulnerable. And for those of us that have always had to be a certain way to receive or have provided everything for ourselves and had to work for it, it can feel uh uncomfortable that someone can just love us. Which is pretty crazy. So there's lots to do there around self-love and around worthiness and also just relaxing your nervous system and expanding your capacity for love, which beautifully like that healing can happen in the relationship, and that's really where it happens. Like, it's it's almost hard to fully heal that shit out of relationship. So it's like, okay, rather than sabotaging this relationship, how can I be really vulnerable, open, and honest about what's going on and use this as a healing opportunity?

Kristin:

Yeah, we've definitely been having some open and deep, vulnerable conversations. Like, like I have had my Nikes on my entire life. I want to put on my slippers and stay. Yes. I love that analogy. But oh, it's been like a when you walk in to get coffee with Boudreaux the other day, I'm safe. I am safe. And yeah, and like the worthiness piece too. I'm worthy of this relationship. Um, and we both had kind of like the hypervigilance or like um that's he's actually said that exact same phrase of like waiting for the other shoe to drop. Yeah. Um, and it's been beautiful. Yeah, I feel like I even before like started this relationship that yeah, it's like I've done I've done a lot of work, I've done a lot of play, you know, and then you really get to test that shit whenever you're in a relationship and it's like, okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean, it's again, it's by God's design that the healing happens in relationships. So much of it happens in relationships. Obviously, there are things that you can do in between, but I think that it's like 10% of the healing happens outside of the relationship, and then it's like, okay, and here's your chance to integrate and to test all of the things that you've been learning, you know, not in relationships. So I'm not someone that's like, you have to wait, you know, six months or whatever to get into another relationship. Um, but I also think it's important that you do a good assessment and a conscious uncoupling and a um, yeah, just some sort of um, what's the word, uh audit of the relationship at the end to really see like what was my part in this? Because even if you think you didn't play a part in it, you did. Um, and the book Conscious Uncoupling is really great at any stage, like even if you're going through a breakup or if you went through a breakup five years ago, but you keep doing the same, following the same type of sorts of patterns, it can be really helpful.

Kristin:

Yeah. The last longer-term relationship that I left, I was like, okay, how can I, how could I have communicated better? How could I have shown up better and all of those things?

SPEAKER_02:

Where am I enabling? That's a really big one, I think, for people that think that they weren't the per the problem. It's like, oh, you enable, like I enable that behavior. Like I create, like a big one with my ex was we would get into these fights and I would always be like, let me just fix this. What do we need to do? Da-da-da. And then this resentment would grow that I was always the one repairing things. But the truth was, is the reason that I did that wasn't because I was a good partner and I wanted to come to repair. It was because I was so uncomfortable sitting in the uncertainty of, oh my God, are we gonna break up? Oh my God, does he hate me now? Like I have to fix things and make it better really quick. And it was like, oh, that's my piece. Like I am really uncomfortable with conflict and I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of being abandoned, and I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of losing this vehicle of love, even if I'm meant for something better, you know? And do I believe that I'm worthy of something better? So that was a big piece for me, is like enabling.

Kristin:

Yeah, I was gonna ask you if there were any like relationship or examples or stories, just period from your life of times where you didn't get the desire, but something like greater showed up.

SPEAKER_02:

Um Yeah. I mean, there's been relational examples. There's also been a lot of just I think like the best example of this is like a more professional example. Um so well, I'll I'll just I'll tie the like the loop on that relationship and then maybe share the professional example. Because that man that I was in a relationship with was the man that I was with before Andrew. And we talked about marriage and we talked about we were like gonna get we were getting a house together, like we were in contract to buy one. Um and it was devastating ending that relationship because I was like, oh my God, I was so close. I was like so close to my happily ever after. I was so close to marriage and becoming a mom and like, you know, having land and like all the things I ever wanted. And so the hardest part of that breakup, it wasn't just I'm losing this person that I love. It was also I'm losing the vision of my life that I had become deeply committed to, that I was so close to coming to fruition. Um, and I questioned it for months. I mean, I would have questioned it for longer, but Andrew came into my life and I started to see, oh shit, like, okay, here's the better thing that, you know, was meant to come. Um, and we are so deeply aligned. And I think that honestly, my ex and I could have worked it out and it would have been okay. Um, but I think that we both would have been sacrificing and it would have been a rockier, harder journey. Um, I think that we both had to like trust our intuition in that moment and kind of just go separate ways. But that's that example. I can share another example too for him.

Kristin:

Yeah, I mean, it just sounds like also like there's a lot of grief in that vision. Yeah. Or like or those things that we've set our sights on.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Kristin:

And then like and like also it brings up like a level of for some re reason the road down the road, choosing. Is it like choosing at some point? And it's like staying to, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. There's a big um, there's a lot of discomfort that comes up when we know deep down what's the better path for us. And it feels really illogical or scary. Yeah, like it's because I this guy, like, he up until that point, he loved me better than any other man in my life. He was an incredible partner in so many ways. And there was such a big part of me that was afraid that that was like, it's not, it can't get better than this because I didn't have any evidence of that. You know, I didn't have any evidence of it being any better than that. But the one thing that helped was that I realized, well, before him, I didn't know it could be this good. So maybe it could be even better. And so after we broke up, I spent a few months really kind of figuring out like, what do I actually want? Like, do I want that vision of marriage and kids and land and all of that because that's what I was raised around and that's my conditioning, or is it a genuine desire? And so I spent a lot of time exploring other types of relationships, other communities, different types of dynamics, different relating styles. And I came out the other side very clear that no, I want life partnership and deep commitment. And I also want a level of openness that might not be like I still wanted a sort of non-traditional relationship, but I but I wanted life partnership and commitment. And once I had that clarity, that's when I sat down and I said, okay, like I don't know if what I want exists in a person. I have a pretty, like almost contradictory um list of qualities that I desire. But let me just write them all down and like say, all right, God, this is my order. If you can fulfill it, awesome. I'm gonna give you six months. If he's not in my life in six months, then I'll reassess and I might lower lower my standards. If you will. People have different perspectives, right? Some people are like, write the whole list and be as specific as possible. And other people are like, don't write, don't be too specific and you might miss something that's actually meant for you. I think I probably landed somewhere in between. But, anyways, um, like two weeks later, Andrew and I started dating. So, and then we got engaged literally at the six-month point. So um, you know, I said to God, I've got six months and then I'll reassess. Like it's not like I'm giving up on love if this doesn't happen six months, but I'm gonna maybe reassess my vision. Um, but no, it it worked out.

Kristin:

God said, All right, bet.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. It was like, um, thank you for finally being courageous enough to fucking want what you want. God, this was the lesson. This was this is why it took this long because you were so resistant to your desire.

Kristin:

Um I feel that in my bones.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

Kristin:

Yeah. Um, it also kind of shows me, too, that those relationships that even come to a completion are are there for a reason, right? Or a season. Um, I know for me, I had someone reach out and um they didn't really know about the beginning of this new relationship and say that they were not gonna rekindle anything with me. And I was like, well, um if you want to. There's a piece of that, and then also it's like, but he also showed me a level of um care or attention or standard. It raised my bar. And so I was like, you still did that regardless. However, I've got a helpful start. I did.

SPEAKER_02:

That's awesome. Let's do more of that. Like honor the ending of the relationship, like harvest it together, like, hey, not aligned, but this is what I learned from you. Thank you. That's great.

Kristin:

Yeah, I love it. That's it's been um, it's been a ride. Blessed. Yeah. Yeah, the courage thing. Uh it's definitely something I value. And then it's like, okay, put it to the test in this uh speaking into the vulnerabilities and the fears and the fears of abandonment and like how or say betrayal or whatever it may be.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And everyone's different. Like there are there are certain tools and mind tricks that I do on myself to um have the courage, right? Another example, this was the other example I was gonna give of having the courage to do the thing that feels a little illogical. Um was so I'll I'll share the trick as I get into the story, but basically, um I used to be a digital nomad and I taught English online. Mostly I did some freelance writing, et cetera. And I was living in places that had a really low cost of living. So I was making like 20, 30 K a year, pretty low. But I was also living in places where like I had, you know, a cute studio apartment that I was paying like$300 for,$354. Um, and like all of my living expenses came out to like a K. So it was like for the month. So um, so it worked, right? But it was also a deeply lonely chapter of my life. Like on the surface, you know, I'm on Instagram, I'm in these foreign countries, getting immersed in culture, doing cool things. But I had no community. I was very alone. And I um ended up going to LA to see this guy that it's kind of a random story, but we sort of dated for like a second and he flew me out to LA, which was crazy at the time. Um, but I saw his life and I was like, whoa, this is crazy. Like he grew up in a lot of wealth. Um, he had a company, he was surrounded by all of these people that also grew up around a lot of wealth. And and again, it was in LA, and I was like, this is like a really interesting lifestyle, and I also really like it here, but it would never work. I didn't grow up in money, so like I couldn't make it work in LA. It's just like, would it happen? The cost of living is so much higher than I'm used to. There's just no way I could possibly make this happen. Um, and also it didn't really make sense. I didn't have any reason to be in LA. Like the only thing was like something is telling me I should be here, but I have no reason. I don't like, and then that guy and I stopped dating. Like, I didn't really have any connections there. It just didn't make any sense. But it kept coming to me like, you need to move there. You need to move there. Like God was like, that's where you need to be, babe. You need to get your ass in LA. And I was like, I'm terrified. I have no idea how that would work. I don't have the resources to make that happen right now. Um, but I trusted it and I was like, all right, let's see if we can figure this out. Um, so the trick that I used at that time was I'm gonna go for three months. I'm gonna go for three months because I can max out my credit cards for, but basically I was like, okay, like I can put 15K on my credit card, 20K, and I can, and I I've done that before, right? I've like put a lot on my credit card and I've always been able to pay it back. So I said, that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna give it three months. And if I'm still swimming and I figure it out in those three months, I'll stay. And if not, I'll just go back to what I'm doing. Like, you know, I think that that's a really powerful tool that I often remind clients of is like, what's the worst case scenario? It doesn't work, and you go back to what you're doing now. Like, it's not like you're gonna crash and burn and like end up homeless. Like, that's very unlikely. So um, so that's what I did. Um and uh I ended up like being like, okay, if I'm gonna move to LA, I'm gonna have to get a normal person job, like at a nine to five. So I applied for this at the time. Again, I studied fashion and communications. I was already studying tantre and I was in that world, but I hadn't quite clicked that I should be doing it professionally yet. So I applied, I applied for several jobs that were like in that fashion communications. And one was it. It was so amazing because they also had a philanthropic edge. Like all of the brands that they represented had some sort of way that they gave back. It's like, this is it. I am meant for this job. There's no way this isn't it. I got to the final rounds of interviews and they turned me down. And I was like devastated. Um, but in reality, what ended up happening is I ended up getting a bunch of weird kind of side hustle jobs. And it was in that space of having all these side hustles that I had the capacity to begin exploring Tantra and have the space to actually build out what I was really meant to do. So again, it was one of those unanswered prayers that direct me in the right way. And then obviously I made it the three months, and then I made it six months, and then I started to see, oh my God, I'm so glad that I'm in LA when I'm starting my Tantra career because this place is filled with the ideal client. Um so yeah, that's that's that story.

Kristin:

That's cool. Yeah, I definitely feel like God will speak and whispers are you know, nut does are whispers and until nil, um, they become yells, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's like a feather, a car har car horn honking, and then a car crash. And I also had a very similar like, you need to leave LA. And I I made it till the till the car crash pretty much. Um, I was very stubborn about leaving LA, but anyways.

Kristin:

I had that happen when I moved into a place. I was like, I was fixated on moving to the east side, and I'm like, I'm gonna I want to write. Um, and like I had a little den. I want to walk to all these like cool little spots.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

Kristin:

Um, and then I moved in and there's like this roach infestation. Like they came alive, and I was like, I can't do that. I couldn't sleep. And so moved out, put my stuff in storage, and then I ended up going like on a tour and being able to bankroll a lot of money. So it like worked out in my favor.

SPEAKER_02:

But at the time I was like, ah yeah, sometimes shit's gotta fall apart for it to fall together. And that's one of those moments where it's like, all right, God, you're telling me something, and uh, I don't want to listen, but I think I have to at this point.

Kristin:

Yeah, and like it's also even like the what I the heartbreak I was feeling for that other person in October. Um, or yeah, I guess it was more August. Yeah, August, September, October, like beginning of that. Six months ago, is it? Yeah. And so then I was just like, okay, you know, I was really set on the vision of him as my person. And then when so when this happened, I'm like, wow, the level of depth and intimacy and connection that I'm feeling now, I didn't have there. So it was it has like unfolded to be pretty nice and juicy so far. Um, I'm gonna look at my questions real quick to see if there's anything that I wanna touch on. Oh any myths that you want to dis um dismantle around devotion?

SPEAKER_02:

I talked a bit about devotion. Okay, I have one. I have one. So one thing that I like to talk about with devotion as it relates to Tantra is that it's a bit different. And I prefer the tantric lens of devotion more than other lenses because when you look at most religions, Eastern, Western, most of them place devotion on an external deity or concept. Um, and oftentimes you also have to communicate to God through like a pastor or minister or rabbi or whatever. Um, not exclusively, but generally speaking, there is this emphasis on devotion to this external deity. Whereas in Tantra, what I love is it's more about finding God again in your own body. So seeing the sacredness within yourself. So there's a lot more devotion that's focused internally, inwardly, on yourself, self-love. Tantra is about finding God in your own body and then allowing that awareness to radiate out into your world around you. So can you see God in your beloved? That's hot too, right? That's a fun little game to play. Um, and it can also be a really challenging game to play when they're also human. Like everyone has God and human within them. Uh, can you see God in the world around you? Can you find God in your pain, in your sadness, in death? Like, can you like stop looking for God in the sky and outside of you and like lick her off the floor? Like, that's what I really love about, you know, devotion in the tantric lens is that it is more focused on the exp the human experience. So many um religious and spiritual lenses are really almost wanting to like transcend the human experience, like transcend smiley bliss, like oh um, which I've had moments like that, which are amazing. But also the more that I've had those moments and connected them deeply into my body, the more that I've experienced life itself from that lens. And so more of the human experience becomes not just blissful, but also acceptable, if that makes sense. Like there's just way less resistance and a lot more compassion and love for ourselves and for the people around us. So, yeah, it's like you chose this human experience for a reason. Yes, God is with you. Um, but you get to be here and like really harvest it. Uh, and it's not always easy. A lot of times I feel lost in the sauce, but yeah.

Kristin:

When I first became on this uh spiritual journey, I feel like so nauseous right now. Yeah. I um I wanted to transcend out of it. Yeah. I'm like, and I think it was because I I wanted to maybe not feel as much. Cause I guess to drop in to my human in this, I'd have to, and I feel deeply, and I would guess I was a little bit afraid of all that would bubble up or was in the backlog per se.

SPEAKER_02:

Um we're like ouchy, human, ouch. Don't like don't like the cry, the pain. But again, as I shared at the beginning of the session, in my pain today, in my tears, I was like, oh, but it feels good. Like if I can really embrace it, um, it's like, ooh, this is deep. Like this is there is an aliveness to this pain that is unique and powerful and precious. And there's something to harvest here, and I'm curious about it. Um yeah. And I would rather go through life really here than trying to like escape all the time. Because it's like, it's like the same thing that people are like doing all these drugs to escape. So is that what you want to do with all your meditation? Or like what's the intention there? Not to say like a meditation's a very powerful tool and I love it. And I literally meditate it today, but it's like I think that a lot of people go into it like, I want to transcend, I want you know what I mean. Humph on a man.

Kristin:

Yeah. I feel like there's so many different types of meditation too. There are. With eyes open, walking, reading, journaling. I mean life itself can be a meditation in a way. Um I like too what you said about the looking and finding God and the, you know, beloved and the people around us. Although sometimes I find it challenging when it's my upstairs elephant neighbor. And I've been trying to like she's walking around like she's angry at life, I feel. And so I'm like, maybe she needs a prayer. So instead of like, but sometimes I still like bang on the balance. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

But I love that. I love that you send her that love. Like that's hard to do.

Kristin:

You know, reroute to that in default.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's hard, it's hard to do. Um, but it's a it's a it's a beautiful practice. It's a really cool practice to do that, to see like, okay, this is a divine being and they're struggling, and yeah, what can I do to support them energetically, physically, whatever?

Kristin:

Yeah. And I also still have visions her moving out. I have love. I hear you. Yeah. Um, so I kind of like this question here. It was fun. Um, if God had a dating profile, what would the bio say?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, I saw this. I thought about it. What did I say? Oh, I'll be your everything. I'll be your everything. Because yeah, I think that God shapeshifts for people. You know, I think that God's the ultimate. Like, you know, we talk about the erotic blueprints, and it's like, God's a shapeshifter for sure. Um so yeah, I'll be your everything, which is hot. And I think that that's like that's something too that I told Andrew at the beginning of the relationship. I was like, I'm gonna be the mother of your children, but I'm also gonna be your whore. You know what I mean? Like it's it's I think that that's a big part of what's beautiful about being alive today is that we have so much space space and permission to explore all of the different archetypes within us. Um and uh yeah, I I just I appreciate that. Like we haven't been able to be both a whore and a Madonna and a business badass. Yeah, that's the and doesn't have to be an or.

Kristin:

Like can we live in the ands a little bit?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and then more of your authentic self can come online, which to me is the greatest gift that you can give yourself and the world.

Kristin:

I agree. I'm like, um, I don't know where else to go. What do you got? What else you got?

SPEAKER_01:

What do you got? What do you got? I mean, I thought this was great. I mean, I don't have much to say except for a good job. We did it. We made it. We went in feeling right. We're both nauseous. We're both, but I thought this was awesome. I was like, this is fun.

SPEAKER_02:

I feel better. That's a cool thing too, right? Like, I think that so like this is kind of related, right? Like so many of us resist purpose or resist, like, we're like, oh, you know, like you say no to that, but it's like actually almost every time that I do work when I'm not feeling well, whether it's because something happened in my life and I'm sad or upset or triggered or whatever, or if it's because like I'm physically unwell for like, I would say 80 to 90% of the time, I feel better on the other side. I legitimately feel better after this. I'm really glad that I came today and like we got to have this conversation. I've got like one more thing on my calendar today, and I'm like, okay, like almost there. It's also weird. I do calls like once a week in my business, and I'm almost like maybe I should be doing more calls, more days of the week, because I finished my call days and I'm like, oh, so glad I did that. Like it's such a good distraction from like my pregnancy symptoms. So, but then other days it's not, you know? So there's other days where like I'm like, I've yeah, I would probably feel better if I went to lunch with my friends, but I literally cannot get my shit together. So I'm gonna cancel it.

Kristin:

Yeah. And I love that you said that too, because I feel like that's something that I used to fixate on. If it's not a hell yeah, it's a no. But like today I have a feeling nothing. So I'm like, oh, okay. It's not a hell yeah. And I'm glad that we did it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

Kristin:

And speaking to that too. All right, sister. Well, I'm I'm good if you're good, or if you want to share anything else, uh, drop.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, maybe I can share a little bit about things that I have people where to find me. I'm sure you put this in the show notes. But um, I'm on Instagram at talk tantra to me. I have a podcast, Talk Tantra To Me. It's seasonal right now, so not a time. I'm about to start a new season, so there'll be some new episodes, but there's like over 200. So if you're new, you'll have plenty to chew on. Um, I do retreats here in Austin, Texas. The Tantra Love Retreat is an amazing co-ed container. So single men, women, and couples are welcome to apply. Uh, I have a book called Sacred Sex Ed. We talked about it a little bit at the beginning.

Kristin:

So good.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's a sex education that you probably didn't have, but that we all desperately need. One that is honest, empowering, and pleasure-based. It's not like when you think Sacred Sex Ed, it's gonna be all these like diagrams of like pussies and anatomy. It's not like that. It's really about having deeply fulfilling intimacy. Um, so yeah, recommend that. And then what I'm most passionate about in this season of life is inspiring women to step into orgasmic leadership, reclaim their dark feminine, and seduce the world into a greater good. And that path is through the pleasure priestess, which is a year-long mastermind for women stepping into the um to their devotion to the tantric path, whether that's for professional reasons or personal reasons. Um, it's a beautiful, beautiful space.

Kristin:

It is. It's so beautiful. I went back for a second round. She loved it so much.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Um, yeah, Kristen beautifully is taking more leadership in that space. So I'm excited to see how that evolves. But um, yeah, it's in it's online and in person, and it's like deeply embodied. It's not just like calls. Um it's we're like doing real ritual and love the rituals.

Kristin:

Um, when's the next one start?

SPEAKER_02:

Uh it starts in the end of April.

Kristin:

Okay, cool.

unknown:

All right.

SPEAKER_02:

So we'll like officially kick things off in May, but kind of the enrollment is ended up.

Kristin:

Well, you got a couple months, peeps.

SPEAKER_01:

But early bird is the best time. Get it early and you save some hair.

Kristin:

Slide in. Slide right on in. Thank you. My pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for being here, love, for listening with your whole heart, for listening to the very end, and for walking this wild path with me. If today's episode stirred something in you, whether a giggle, a tear, or a full-body yes, don't keep it to yourself. Share the magic, leave a review, drop me a note, or send it to a fellow sacred rebel who needs it. And remember, your story is sacred, your desires are divine, and your mess is part of the masterpiece. Keep showing up, keep feeling it all, and keep turning your life into poetry. Until next time, stay wild, stay tender, and stay true to that beautiful soul of yours. All my love, Krista.