Sex, Drugs, & Soul

103. The Cost of the Mask: Sex, Love, & Lies We Tell Ourselves | C.R. Herro

• Kristin Birdwell • Season 4 • Episode 17

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“The mask that keeps you from being abandoned is the same one that keeps you from being loved.”

This episode is not soft.
It’s not performative.
And it’s definitely not comfortable.

Licensed therapist C.R. Herro returns for one of the most raw, intellectually honest, and emotionally confronting conversations on Sex, Drugs, & Soul to date.

We unpack:

  • Why archetypes and masks feel safe but sabotage intimacy
  • The uncomfortable truth that sex is not love
  • How trauma teaches us to outsource safety, worth, and belonging
  • Why kindness is strength (and intensity is often a red flag)
  • The fantasy of being rescued & the grief of letting it die
  • What it actually means to become your own hero

This is a conversation about responsibility, embodiment, emotional honesty, and the courage it takes to stop performing and start living.

🎧 Listen if you’re ready to stop numbing, stop pretending, and start telling yourself the truth.

00:00 – Welcome + why this conversation will ruffle feathers
03:00 – What’s turning C.R. on: access, honesty, & emotional availability
07:30 – Why being human is harder than we admit
12:00 – Archetypes vs authenticity: the mask we wear to feel safe
18:00 – The puppet metaphor: why the mask blocks real love
24:00 – Trauma, self-blame, & being crueler to ourselves than others
30:00 – Codependence vs hyper-independence (same wound, different armor)
36:00 – The fantasy of being rescued
42:00 – Sex ≠ love: the most expensive lie
48:00 – Intensity vs kindness (red flags that look like desire)
54:00 – Dropping performance & choosing emotional responsibility
60:00 – The 80th birthday exercise: playing the tape all the way forward
68:00 – Becoming your own hero
75:00 – Love without possession & interdependence
82:00 – Final reflections, integration, & closing wisdom

For all the peptide goodies, join me on Ellie MD.
https://elliemd.com/kristinbirdwell

Support the Pod:
Venmo: @hillbilly-healer
PayPal: @KristinBirdwellLLC
CashApp: $KristinBirdwell

Connect with Kristin:
Website - https://www.kristinbirdwell.com/
Instagram - http://instagram.com/kristinbirdwell_
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@sexdrugssoul

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...

Kristin:

Welcome to Sex, Drugs, and Soul. The sacred, sensual space for wild ones, truth tellers, taboo dancers, and revels with soul. I'm your host, Kristen Birdwell, best-selling author, mystic, tantrica, and professional line blurrer between the profane and the profound. For years I thought I had to choose be the good girl or the wild one, be spiritual or sensual, polished or powerful. But I've learned the magic lives in the both and in the mess, the mystery, the mischief, and in embracing our messy humanness. This podcast is where healing gets real. Self-discovery gets juicy, and shame gets kicked to the damn curb. Whether I'm flying solo or vibing with fellow seekers, healers, experts, and pleasure revolutionaries, we dive deep into the beautifully messy intersection of spirituality, sexuality, and self-expression. Because your body isn't too much. Your story isn't too messy, and your truth, that's holy. Well, well, well, happy new year. Happy New Year. Coming in hot to this one. I um am super stoked. I have on CR Hero again today. He's now a licensed therapist. Look at that follow-through.

SPEAKER_03:

Look at how scary that is. Oh, importantly, thank you for inviting me to one of 2025's most shared podcasts. Thank you.

Kristin:

Congratulations. Thank you. I yeah, I do want to do a quick shout-out to everyone that's tuning in about just like how grateful I am. Um, yeah, I apparently I looked at the Spotify wrapped analytics and yeah, 20 or one of the top uh shared podcasts of like 90 per 7% or something like that. I don't know. Um yeah, but just thank you so much uh from the bottom of my heart. Now I'm gonna uh get some sponsor daddies.

SPEAKER_03:

Good luck with that. Well deserved and needed.

Kristin:

Yeah. I mean, maybe I mean I'll even throw in my Venmo or my Cash App in the notes. Like, if you're feeling generous, want to throw me a five spot? Cool. Help pay for some studio space.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, this is probably not gonna be the podcast that does it. I'm about to probably piss off most of your viewers.

Kristin:

Well, you know that I like to ruffle some feathers.

SPEAKER_03:

So let's then I I'm your guy.

Kristin:

Okay. So I've been asking every person that comes on since I discovered the signature question myself, um, what's turning you on in life right now?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Um access and and being able to provide access like I haven't been able to to before. I think being a therapist and working with people 10 hours a day, 50 hours a week has really improved my ability to both tune in but also be really emotionally available and honest. And um some people in my life have like commented that I've changed and I think I think it's for the better. And so uh just, you know, being able to have a much more honest, transparent, substantive connection with humans um is definitely something I am incredibly grateful for and feels different this year.

Kristin:

That's beautiful. It sounds like the access is a two-way street, like accessing like with clients or the people that you're working with, and then like yourself, right? If you're more emotionally available or that's the feedback you're receiving.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, you've got to be authentic to be a therapist, right? I mean, and you have to sit in authenticity and you nudge and call out bullshit all day long and people's defensiveness and minimizations and deflections and repressions. And if you're gonna do that, you kind of have to hold yourself accountable, right? So yeah, I'm I I gotta let go of some of my bullshit go.

Kristin:

Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm laughing because I'm like, well, you've called me on my bullshit before and you weren't even my therapist.

SPEAKER_03:

So well, not paid at least.

Kristin:

I mean, yeah, I will say that you uh were like there for me this year. Um, and that that also brings tears to my eyes because it was like a really shitty situation, you know? Um having a knife held to your back, literally. And you walked me through it and like guided and supported me, like with conversations and and just like friendship and support, and then I'm and I'm appreciative of that.

SPEAKER_03:

I was grateful to be there, but also I think that is a very human thing that we struggle with being kind to ourselves when we're really kind to everybody else, and feeling worthy and feeling um and not feeling like you've got to minimize um something you'd never minimize for somebody you love. And um, and so that's definitely some of the stuff I'd love to get into today is how being human um is really difficult. And we allow imperfections, we provide grace, we we allow context and learning opportunities for everybody but ourselves. Like we are so mean to ourselves. And almost everything I do in therapy, um, you know, and I'd see 50, 60 people a week now, and I'm loving it. But almost every time I end with, boy, you're shitty to yourself. Right? Like, you know, we we present out timelines and we present out cognitive distortions and we talk about relationships. And I in the consistent feature of people that are suffering enough to come to therapy is that um they're really not allowing themselves to be human and participate in a very human way in this experience, which is we're imperfect. The only way we get to learn is when we make mistakes. And um being accessible to your emotions so they protect you, not putting them in a box and ignoring them. And, you know, that's kind of what I do now. And it's a ton of fun.

Kristin:

Well, I'm all here for like expanding one's capacity to feel. I think emotion is the secret sauce for a lot of things. Um remedies, like I think if you don't process it, it can cause like dis-eases in the body. Um, I think it's a you know, a feedback messenger system or you know, it highlights, intuition, all kind all kinds of things, patterns, truth as sensation in the body. But I know I want to um I know you mentioned authenticity a little bit earlier. I want to like circle back to that too.

SPEAKER_03:

Um you want to jump right into archetypes versus authenticity?

Kristin:

I do. Yeah. When you say that word, I'm like, okay, let's talk about archetypes versus authenticity. Because is there a lot of strife whenever someone is coming into your office or just like on their day-to-day, or maybe they're not in therapy, but they're presenting um a mask, right? Because of the what is it because of the weight of the pressure that we put on ourselves to be perfect, even though that we cannot be perfect?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it so a lot. And when I when I watch your podcast, I wish I was like sitting over your shoulder going, call them on this bullshit. Like, like this, this um, this character that people play that um they believe gives them strength and actually really takes away really important things from them. So, do you have something pretty like that's handholdable in your vicinity?

Kristin:

Um, I have my phone, a water bottle, a journal, uh, a hi-ho pineapple coconut social tonic that I have not conquered by yet.

SPEAKER_03:

Um doing it with your tonic. So we're gonna we're gonna start this um somatically. So present to the camera what you wish I saw in you and what you wish to be so I loved you and and I was there for you and you would be safe. That is your hi-that is that is that is your way. That is your fantasy archetype that you're gonna present to me as a mask so that I am safe to you and that I and I give you what you need for me. So that's your puppet. That's your mask.

Kristin:

This is my puppet.

SPEAKER_03:

And here's mine. Here's perfect CR.

Kristin:

Oh, I mean, I could have gotten like a little stuffed animal or something.

SPEAKER_03:

Nope, nope.

Kristin:

You're gonna be at me. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_03:

We're gonna be your next sponsored product. So I present to you perfect CR because I'm worried that I'm not enough, I'm not charming enough, I'm not handsome enough, that I'll be held accountable to mistakes I've made in my past, I'm ashamed of. And I really want us to be close, and I really want you to stay in my life. So I'm gonna ask you to pretend that I'm this perfect thing that I'm gonna pretend to be for you. And then you're gonna, I'm gonna give you the gift of I'm gonna allow you to hold up a mask to me and pretend to be that. And this is what most of us do. We present to each other an archetype of what we think the other person needs so we're safe and we don't get abandoned. Because abandonment sucks. So here's the problem. What happens when you love me? And I'm this?

Kristin:

It's not received because it's not who you truly are. So you won't realize.

SPEAKER_03:

I think I've got you fooled and I know that you love this, not me. What happens when I love you?

Kristin:

Yeah, but will it land?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. What happens when I'm mad at you?

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know, tell me.

SPEAKER_03:

It gets past the puppet. It'll land.

Kristin:

Oh that shit. Triggered or uh in the world.

SPEAKER_03:

And so this this defensive mechanism we use so that people don't abandon us, so that we can finally receive love that we may not believe we have earned because we have to pretend that we use to protect us, causes us never to get loved, causes us to never feel it, even when people do love us, but takes every arrow, takes every slight, takes every abandonment straight through. And so this dance, these dances of tokens or archetypes that we do are the thing you're smiling because you hear Bubba coming up behind me, aren't you?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

This dance that we do um prevents us from the thing that we desperately need, which is connection and reciprocity and safety.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And this is what I see almost everybody do, and it breaks my heart now that I see it, because I've done this a bunch too.

Kristin:

Oh, same. Yeah, for sure. I feel like I'm just now on the brink of a start of a new relationship where I'm not doing that. And yeah, it's and it scared the fuck out of me.

SPEAKER_04:

It should be. Yeah, it absolutely should be scary.

Kristin:

I was walking in to get a coffee with Boudreaux. I mean, like, like and like tapping on my chest and like, I'm safe, I'm safe, I'm safe. I'm like, I've had my Nikes on my entire life. I really want to put my slippers on and stay. Um voice that. And um, yeah, so I would love to like break down, like if there's anything more that you want to expand on that archetype versus the first time.

SPEAKER_03:

I could spend the next 20 hours doing this. It's uh it's such an important part of all the rest of it, which is all the things we do to be safe, to be seen, to be loved, that we externalize. Like, am I worthy? Am I good? Am I attractive? Am I um of value? And everybody, even the people that love us, can't tell us that. But they will. We'll desperately manipulate them to try to hear the words, we'll desperately pretend to be something that they that we think they want us to be to hear those words, but they don't know a tenth of what you are. They they don't have the information to comment on it. And they're not psychic and all-powerful and even capable of being what you need them to be. There's only one person in the world that's capable of telling you your value and your uh uh contribution and your abilities and your adequacy. And it's the last person you go to. There you go.

Kristin:

It's me. I know I wrote a poem not too long ago. I was like, man, I know I need to choose myself, but fuck can of girl and get a little help. Um, so then let's talk about like how uh how people can drop a mask and like step more into that.

SPEAKER_03:

Let's talk about why they don't. Um and then we'll talk because it's it's understanding how compelling it is to be codependent that keeps us codependent. Um, one, it's super yummy when somebody tells you they love you. It's super yummy to to hear you're good. It's super it's super yummy to um have somebody love bomb you, even though something bad's about to happen.

Kristin:

It does feel really good because I'm really great.

SPEAKER_03:

And I think I'm of course they love me like in Disney and Hollywood and uh Madison Avenue and everything, the way they market to us, like you will be worthy when you pull up in your Bentley. You'll be worthy when you've got six-pack abs. You'll be worthy, and then you know, they show you these stories, and the prince comes and the princess uh swoons and the crowd cheers, and your chest comes out and your smile and you brighten. And the reason we are codependent and enmeshed and miserable is because those little crumbs feel so damn good.

Kristin:

I have a question.

SPEAKER_03:

Please.

Kristin:

Um, but okay, codependent upon like the external validation or resourcing in that way. What about uh the hyper-independent? Do they still have those codependent tendencies, but they're like more on their own little island? Is that what I mean?

SPEAKER_03:

Both of them, I gotta back up so I can, you know how I talk to my hands. Both of them are the um opposite sides of a spectrum when the truth is in the middle. Right? So we are interdependent. Like it took thousands of people to like make this shirt and this shirt and this thing and make this computer for me. Like it, it's millions and millions of people, so I can eat lunch and wear my clothes and have a conversation with a pretty girl in Texas. Like, it's lots and lots of people involved in this. Um, so we are interdependent, right? We we it does take a village. We all need each other, but the romanticism of somebody else assigning you your worth and and telling you you're lovable and um telling you you finally you're good because your little child is screaming at you that you're not, to counter that bullshit you tell yourself, which I want to talk about why, um, is yummy. And you have to see it the same way you have to when you rescue people, and it feels so good to be a kind person, you have to see the damage you do to them, that you are taking away their autonomy, you're taking away their power, you're taking away their experience of being capable. Like rescuing people is for yourself. You're selfish when you do that because you need that affirmation. The person who gets rescued never gets to feel the power. So you're doing them damage. And when you admit that to yourself, you can let it go. You're damaging yourself when you give your power and your validity and your worth to an ignorant person that has to guess what the answer is. And it's so scary when you give something away that belongs to you, you switch immediately into manipulation and fear. And those are your choices. I'm gonna jump in and I'm gonna twist and pretend and dance to get what I need, or I'm gonna tell them all to go fuck themselves and go the other way.

Kristin:

Or you're honest and deeply vulnerable. In the middle and scary as fuck.

SPEAKER_03:

And but also recognize that you're standing in front of an imperfect person who's guessing that has their own shit and that is used to a very transactional world. It's one of the reasons I kind of reject society as it is today, is it's so transactional, it's so superficial, it's so externalizing. When the truth is I'm responsible for everything from my toes to my nose, I'm responsible to be kind and keep myself safe, and then I'm responsible to get my shit together so that I can share my weirdness with a couple other people along the way to make their world bigger. And it's super kind when they share their weirdness with me and we can celebrate that, but none of that tells me I'm okay and safe and of value. It's my fucking job. And exporting that absolutely sets you up as either scared or manipulative. And both of those will absolutely give you experience that you're afraid of. One of the things that I've I've learned being a therapist is we do these things called psycho works. What's going on with your addiction? What's going on with your um your inability to tolerate um closeness? What's going on with your superficiality in your intimate life? Like what's happening in all those cycles, whether it's an inability to kind of tolerate sobriety, whether it's an inability to accept that you're loved by another person, whether it's um all these cycles we get in, they're they pivot on a lie. And the lie that they we tell themselves come from trying to pretend you're perfect, even though you don't expect it from anybody else. Rationalize trauma, especially like young trauma, where you're so egocentric when you're young, you've internalized imperfect parents with a lot of stuff going on that had nothing to do about you, is all about you, right? And that's not bad. It's just what you do when you're young. You're egocentric and you think it's about you. And now you're responsible for neglect, abandonment, divorces, physical trauma, emotional trauma, fuck, sexual abuse. Now it's your fault. Now, what what makes sense of that? Well, I deserved it. I'm bad innately, I'm not worthy of being taken care of. The only way it can be taken care of is I'm a jester and I act the fool or I transact, right? This is where all these lies we tell ourselves come from.

Kristin:

And then we these masks. And there's a reason why my like what part of my intention for the year is bold faith.

SPEAKER_03:

And and what piece of your adaptive puzzle piece does somebody else plug into? Sometimes, sometimes they plug into your indent and they're the they're the penetrator. Sometimes you plug into their indent, right? So you're you you you adapt based on what you think will keep you safe and get you what you need. And everybody's gonna present a different dance for you, right? Even love avoidance, like people that don't feel safe enough to truly be intimate. And I mean that the Brene Brown intimate UC intimacy. They don't feel safe, so they they get close and they push and they get close and they chaotic and they get close and they run. Um will jump over into the love addict, desperately, desperately, desperately fantasy, pretend, be everything that person wants me to be. Please love me. But they do it with somebody who's an avoidant, right? To make sure they get the result that they need, which is they don't have to be congruent and real and intimate. And they put on their tennis shoes.

Kristin:

I've got my clippers on right now, and I feel just I'm like, I don't want pretense. I don't want masks, I am don't want to do any of that bullshit.

SPEAKER_04:

Like I am so happy for you.

Kristin:

It is so deeply scary, but at the same time, like, I know that I've got me. And I think that that's what one thing over the last year or year and a half is like really got the self-trust.

SPEAKER_03:

So are you willing to be to share some of that with your audience? Because it's probably a really good way to talk about the things you and I want to talk about, which are how do we show up authentically? How do we keep ourselves safe? What are the stories that we tell ourselves to make sense of our childhood that are bullshit, that impair us from getting what we actually want? Right. How does all of this come in so much of what you talk about is this healthy expression of physicality? And so many people, let me say, you can do whatever feels good for you and celebrate your body and your emotions and your interpersonal relationships any way you want to. None of this is about judgment. But there is a cost and a consequence to everything. There's no free lunch. And so, you know, once again, I wish I was over your shoulder sometimes going, yeah, you can have sex that's about you, and you can have sex that's about another person. Both of those are fives. Have you ever tried to have sex that's about honest connection? That's a fucking 10. And once you have a 10, it's tough to let you like it's tough to sit in the pond.

SPEAKER_04:

You can't go back.

SPEAKER_03:

And in and I mean this in the kindest way. There's nothing wrong with celebrating your fives. As somebody who wants people not to suffer and have the most amazing life they can, which is why I became a therapist. I know that just having a physical experience is okay, but not exactly what a 10 would be.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And so, like, I'm not, I'm not mad about all the people wanting to go to the buffet and figure out what all their nerve endings do. Okay. Like that could be fun.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Those nerve endings are interesting. But fuck, you could actually connect and feel safe and share and communicate outside of yourself with another human being.

Kristin:

I know.

SPEAKER_03:

There's no replacement for that.

Kristin:

Um yeah, like I, there's a piece of me that's like, oh wow, is this what's possible when I come into something with integrity and then vulnerability and true depth and intimacy? Um, I it it's was some unlike some anything that I've ever experienced before. And I was like, well, I can't go back. It's like this or better. And I'm like, I don't want to fuck this up. Um, and to allow like the connection emotion to me, it's like touching God insects.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

Kristin:

Or feeling God's presence. Like uh it's I I'm I'm almost at a loss of words for it. I mean, I mean, I think so many people celebrate their five because maybe they don't even know that a 10 is possible or exists. Um I agree.

SPEAKER_03:

I absolutely agree. They don't know.

Kristin:

Maybe their five is a 10 to them at that moment.

SPEAKER_03:

Because they they think the dial doesn't keep going up. I know that.

Kristin:

Yeah. Um yeah, so that's just been really recent within the. And it's something you and I have talked about for a while because on the yeah, if you want to ask me any questions to prompt, like what to share, exactly what you're saying.

SPEAKER_03:

I'll chase you down this whole.

Kristin:

But you and I have been talking about I'm Alice in Wonderland right now.

SPEAKER_03:

But you and I, but I I kind of want to generalize it so that so that everybody kind of gets something from it. So so you and I have been talking a long time, and I've been advocating for uh a very idealistic position, which is there's a wide sexuality, which is I'm gonna go experience nerves, right? And I'm gonna go celebrate all my little nerve endings and my physicality. And then there's a deep, which is I'm gonna actually experience somebody besides myself, which is hard, hard, hard to do because of the nature of our physicality, right? We're kind of stuck in our brains and we have a running monologue and we have all these senses that come in through our eyes and ears, nose, and and nerve endings. And to get out of that and to have a connection to something besides ourselves, which is why when you talk about it being God, it resonates with me, is that extension beyond ourselves is achievable in very, very few ways. It's there's there's some meditation that can allow you to experiencing yourself outside of yourself as part of the it all. Um there's probably some drugs I haven't done, but I hear.

Kristin:

Oh my God, you gotta get I I can hook you up. That that there's some ego death that allows you- not that you're gonna do that as a licensed therapist or anything under a setting that's not that can experience you get, which means you can see your your role.

SPEAKER_03:

You can be a part of it all. And sex. And and I've just always been such a fan of trying to get there and to get above five.

Kristin:

Um You mean those categories fall into sex, drugs, and soul?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. There you go. Today.

Kristin:

Um I didn't mean to interrupt you. I just kind of lost my time.

SPEAKER_03:

No, I I I love the pull around because it's it is, you know, it's the it's the struggle of being human to find.

Kristin:

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, because I wanna in a role.

Kristin:

And in I'm I'm like, I raise my hand. Um, I uh I I do think that you can have deep relationships and intimacy with more than one person, but and I with this relationship, uh the level and degree of depth and holiness and whatever we want to call it that I've experienced doesn't I don't want anything else. So it's fulfilling. Yes. And so I don't know wrestle or wrangle with that.

SPEAKER_03:

So let's wrestle with it. So um, and I don't want you to tell me because I honestly don't know if it's a boy or girl. We haven't talked offline about this relationship. And it's fun for me not to know. It's like uh, who's the cat that's in the box? You don't know if it's alive or dead, right? And it could be both, right?

Kristin:

In some ways it's both.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. So don't tell me because it's fun, it's it's it's fun for me to be able to have a conversation um that it just it's somebody you love and and are being brave and allowing it. Like that, that to me, it's it's a more fun discussion. So don't tell me.

Kristin:

Well, and it's interesting too, because we've been lovers and we've dated. Like, and uh just if someone's tuning in and this is your first episode, like we're this is it's an interesting conversation and dialogue to have too.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. How many times uh you put together. By the way, I don't know how you're internalizing it's super easy for me because I I've always comfortable. I love you and I just want you to be happy. Like that's that doesn't hurt me at all.

Kristin:

Same. I want you to be happy and I love you. And like, but for a lot of people listening, they may be like, what?

SPEAKER_03:

Fair. And that's well, let's start at that. So my definition of love is wanting somebody to be happy regardless of how it impacts you. And that to me is that being outside of yourself. We're egocentric because we're the only people we know, and we're responsible from kind of our fingertips to our toes, and we should be. We like, as we talked about, like it's unnomantic, but we're responsible for our happiness and our value and our work. And there is an opportunity to include someone else in and walk the path where you don't need to have them conform to you, where you can just celebrate all the stuff that they are, whether it's convenient or not, whether it's what you wished it was for or not, whether it's easy or not. Like you, like there's a I can accept, which is a requirement, I can celebrate, right? That's a lot of fun. And and boundaries are such an important part of healthy. And that boundary, no matter how you think about it, is which is you you right, it's this, like I'm gonna take care of myself and I'm gonna protect myself. If every way I've thought about it, that reciprocal nature of it, it's about um providing each other respect, respecting the person for their path, their journey, their approach, and not needing anything from that, letting go of the transactional stuff, but requiring respect and safety and your experience to be honored.

Kristin:

Yeah, this is it's been a um and I'll I'll I like the not knowing whether it's male or female thing. I'm gonna keep it. Let's let's leave a little mystery. Okay. Um I uh it's been the slowest burn build in a way, like only seeing one another like once or twice a week. Um, and it's so good for my nervous system to really establish like that safety and trust. Um, and then and at the same time, I voice I'm like, don't get me wrong, there's a part of me that's like, I want to, I can see you all the time. I'm like, I like I want that. Um, but yeah, and and like there's been communication. I was gonna use a pronoun. There's been communication um around like the level and comfortability of being of how they're able to open up to what what capacity right now. I'm like, go as slow as you need to go. Like I am too. Um and we'll see how it all unfolds. I love that. So let's talk about trying not to future build too much.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, let's talk about the beginning parts of a healthy relationship since one of us is there. Um I have a big rule, which is this very unromantic thing where you're responsible for yourself, is you big build yourself a very tall, very thick, slabby castle. Because no one has the right to you, no one requ is required to your truth, to your story, anything. Big slabby castle. And you keep yourself safe. It's your fucking job. If you're brave enough, put in a door because some relationships are nurturing and nourishing and amazing and hard and complex and all that, like that you we're never gonna get out of the human experience. But the door is is something you do on your own terms, and you put a sign next to that door that says assholes don't bother to knock.

Kristin:

Wait, assholes. Where was that sign in my 20s?

SPEAKER_03:

You did not hang that sign well in your 20s.

Kristin:

I didn't know a sign existed.

SPEAKER_03:

And then before you open it, you need to look around and be honest about how much room you built in your castle. And I mean that, so I'm an introvert, you know that.

Kristin:

And me too.

SPEAKER_03:

I when I have somebody in my life like breaking bread, touching base and sharing myself, um, allowing somebody to share themselves with me, celebrating their weirdness, celebrating my weirdness, like that takes a lot of time for me to do at the level that um is significant to me. And so I like have enough space inside my castle for five. Like at six, like I don't have enough time to work and sleep. Like, like I can only be fair and attuned to and safe to and significant for about five people. And I rarely have five, right? I I I but but I know that I've got this upward limit. And then I remind myself there's eight billion people out there. Not everybody needs to be able to get through the door. And Brene Brown, I don't know why she's coming up with me so much today. She's so she does such good work.

Kristin:

Because you're you're on the call with another Texan. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Brene Brown um tells a story about her daughter that went to school and told the secret to her friends, then her friends told everybody, and she came home in tears. And she she told the story. And I like this story so much. Hold on. A guy. She talks about a jar of marbles.

Kristin:

Oh, yeah. I've heard that one, but but continue.

SPEAKER_03:

And and so what she says is, Did you tell somebody that had a full jar of marbles? And and her daughter didn't understand it. She goes, tell me about the people that think about you, that care about you, that that check in on you, that, that, that have showed you that you matter to them. And every time you have that instance, you get a marble from them. And the only people you let in through your door, they can the rest can sit on the lawn. You can have superficial, transactional, friendly relationship with as many people as you want. But the people that get in have a full jar of marbles because they earned it. And so I think part of my thesis here, which is you're unromantically responsible for your happiness and your safety and your self-care, is that you don't owe anybody access to your castle until they have demonstrated character and trustworthiness. And so I love to hear that you're going slow with he or she. And and that, and that allows you to actually be nice to yourself. The biggest thing that I see in my practice is this trauma response, is that I didn't get I wasn't safe when I was a kid. And I told myself some story. But I'm mad about the fact I wasn't safe. Like, because I had, you know, I had this archetype to what a mom was supposed to be, and an archetype of what a dad was supposed to be, and an archetype of what family was supposed to be. And they were perfect in this archetype. And we got these imperfect, deeply flawed humans that it's easy to make a baby, it's hard to raise a child, right? So we got what we got. Some of us got much less than others, but no matter what, they're imperfect and they couldn't keep us safe all the time and they couldn't attune to our needs all the time because they're human. And when my needs weren't met and I was dependent, so zero to twelve, um, it was so unsafe that I had to tell myself a a way to understand it. Like I'll understand it when I'm an adult, I wasn't worth being taken care of, I needed to do something to be better, and I'm gonna perform, I'm gonna be performative now to be more safe. And we carried that with us. And these stories um deeply affect this idea that I'm mad. And so you get it's a path, you get entitled. And entitlement means, hey, I didn't get what I needed, now somebody else needs to make it right. I didn't get what I needed, so I can justify this behavior that I wouldn't tolerate from anybody else. I didn't get what I needed, and so I'm gonna manipulate in this way to be feel safe. But at arms like that, that manipulation isn't correct or healthy. But I I'm entitled now because I was hurt and I was not safe and I wasn't taking care of. And that entitlement kind of drops you into um unrealistic expectations. Like, because people don't owe you these things because your parents didn't tune in. People don't owe you these things because you weren't safe. I'm gonna say this and it's gonna be hard to hear. People don't owe you something because you are a victim of something terrible, sexual abuse, physical abuse. Like you can't put that entitlement into other people, like that that anger, that um lack of that externalization of accountability against somebody besides the victimizer. But we do. We all do, every one of us does. And that unrealistic expectations are rarely met. Like these people don't, because it's it's it comes from someplace else, these expectations don't get met, and then we get resentful. Because resentments are a result of expectations, always. And so now we've bought ourselves disappointment and anger and sorrow, and that is what kind of causes us the drug use and the addictions and the um anger and the violence and the manipulations, like all that kind of comes from this trauma perspective.

Kristin:

And I think the um hyperproductivity is one of the most acceptable addictions.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, because it's called avoidance.

Kristin:

I mean, I was how many graduate degrees do I have?

SPEAKER_03:

I know.

Kristin:

I know. I was like, Dr. Hero, let me know. You never really like to claim that, but I was like, you do have a doctorate. Um but yeah, so there's so much in that to unravel and go down that I'm like, where to start?

SPEAKER_03:

Um for me it's it's nice to see the truth so you make intentional decisions, which is I've got armor and I've got masks, and I've got defenses, and I've made mistakes, and I've got these emotions, and all this kind of informs my beliefs. And a lot of those beliefs are guesses, a lot of those beliefs are fantasy, and a lot of those beliefs are false entitlements. And if we can set some of it down, we have a much better chance of just being safe because we gave it to ourselves and allowing the other person just to be somebody interesting to walk with.

Kristin:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. It's the it's interesting, like transactions that get us, it's the manipulations that get us, it's the externalism of our needs so that we desperately need somebody else to take care of us that gets us.

SPEAKER_04:

Of course.

SPEAKER_03:

Or the anger that we're gonna take on somebody that was involved and what you're angry about.

Kristin:

Yeah, for sure. I mean for the for me, um, I was listening to like, I think I told him to do a bunch of sermons because I was like, I gotta feed my mind something positive and uplifting. And I love him, Robert Mediew out of social Dallas. I want to go in person. He's so great. Um, but I was like, old keys. It wasn't him, but it was like just a friend had come over for brunch, and it's like the first one that I'm cooking on my grandmother's dishes. And um I'm like, old keys aren't gonna open up new doors. Like, I've got to make different choices if I want a different result. I've got to be like really conscious and intentional, and it scares the fuck out of me, but I've got to sit with it and feel it. And at the end of the day, I believe I came in here to be a human to experience it all. The, the grungy, the sadness, the the The joy, all of it. Because that to me that encompasses the totality of who we are. Not to say that we can't make conscious choices that help us be happier or live more joyful lives. Um, but it's like, can I accept all of it? Can I make peace with it, even if I don't like it? Um I don't know. That's just kind of like a little thing that came up. But I also get like the where the expectations can also lead to resentment. Um so is it just let's see. I mean, like I know and that sounds like they would like sabotage intimacy.

SPEAKER_03:

Um what are you doing that you're responsible for that makes you safe?

Kristin:

That makes me safe, or that makes me feel safe.

SPEAKER_03:

That's the root, right? That's like if you think of Maslaw, right? That's the root.

Kristin:

Yeah. Nurturing myself, like whether it's uh self-care, like whether it's yoga, whether it's a daily devotional read, whether it's um touching myself, like self-soothing, um, working for money. Money is a big one that helps me feel safer and um and aligning that to be with what I really want to do and how I want to show up in the world.

unknown:

Yeah.

Kristin:

Well, that's probably higher up on the need um or the list or whatever. But like I know foundation, I love my place, I love my home. Boudreaux's been a great help. He's like a nurturing, like um helps regulate my nervous system. I'll hold him trying to regulate here. We we co-regulate. Um I know because sometimes when I'm like, I look at him like, you're my mirror, you're fucking crazy right now. So I'm uh so he's been wonderful, walks, um, putting my fucking phone down. Um, like trying to be where my boots are.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. But also being accountable to yourself. Like, yeah.

Kristin:

Oh, calling myself on my shit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

No, but no, but just like recognizing that, hey, like the everything I just heard was I'm going to exhibit self-care, which is a way for you to physically act out that you're worthy and that like you care for yourself. And that's really healthy, and a lot of people don't do that.

SPEAKER_04:

So yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

A lot of people like it, it they either don't feel worthy or they think it's somebody else's job. And both of those suck for them. Right. And so good first step. You feel worthy and you realize it's your job.

Kristin:

Yeah, and accepting all of me. And I think for so long, you know, I positioned myself or my offerings for what I knew was going to be like loved and accepted. Um, but then that caused a lot of anxiety. And then I'm like, oh well, no wonder. Yeah, I know. I was like, because I thought that it would give me the love, acceptance, validation. I mean, shit. Um, and in so many different ways I've experimented with it. Like whether it was like drugs, substances, men, spiritual modalities. If I do this next thing, will it fix me? You know, I think that's been a big shift too, is my mindset where I'm looking at myself as a project to fix and stepping into miracle to explore. Um, being could be coming to terms with being a fucking messy human and like allowing myself to feel and expanding my capacity to feel my emotions whenever I used to be like, oh, that's a lot. I feel deeply.

SPEAKER_03:

Um it's a gift also. It's a it's a yes, it's a rough gift to have your emotions, right? You've cried four times already, right? It's it's a beautiful, rough gift.

SPEAKER_04:

Who's counting?

SPEAKER_03:

But it's also your truth, right? And and having availability to the things that keep you safe because anger keeps you safe.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, regular cool. Love that.

SPEAKER_03:

No, hey, somebody crossed my boundaries. I I I'm not being I'm not safe. Um, fear keeps you safe. Hey, this is dangerous. I need to, I need to focus on it and prioritize uh my attention to it. Guilt keeps you safe. Hey, this gave me a result I'm not proud of and don't like. I need the energy to choose a different pattern because our brains love patterns, right? Um, all of our emotions keep you safe. There's only one emotion that's worthless, and that's shame.

Kristin:

Shame? Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

Because it's the difference between guilt and shame is guilt is being a stealing something. Um, shame is a thief. Hey, I did this, it had unintended consequences. I may choose differently tomorrow. Hey, I am this, and I have less less choices, and I have to behave according to my label and my categorizations. Shame is bullshit. I am unworthy, I'm unlovable, I have to be perfect to be taken care of, I'm unsafe. Like that's all labels instead of giving yourself the ability to make a new choice tomorrow.

Kristin:

And there's so much nuance within it, too, because I also kind of subscribe, I'm like, yes, I want to feel my emotions. And at the end of the day, I think it's all love or fear. Like, and fear is a call for more love in some ways. And it's like that nuance.

SPEAKER_03:

It gets super complicated as you as you fold in needs and wants. Um, right, because that's where so many of the other emotions kind of are are are extracted from love and fear, right? Love is I'm safe and I'm apart. Fear is I'm not safe and I'm isolated. Okay. And then all the things in between are the messiness of being humans and being able to imagine 500 paths to walk down and trying to figure out which one to do and how to go about it. What are intentions, what are our actions, what our consequences, what do we not believe? Um, but back to you. So you do it, you so good job on kind of that first step of I'm worth it and I take care of myself.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

What are the things you look to other people to keep you safe?

Kristin:

Hmm. I like love languages type of stuff.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't know.

Kristin:

I want to hear what you I want to hear your approach before I I g I give you a to keep me safe or that makes me feel nurtured or safe.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm gonna use the word safe until I hear your answer.

Kristin:

In some ways, I don't like the word safe because a lot of trauma happens with people that should that should have been safe. Um and what does that tell you? But it is also a feeling of feeling safe and nurtured and held. Um yeah, being held is a big one, like the actual physical touch of being held. Um, and when actions align with the words that are coming out of their mouth.

SPEAKER_03:

Um That's that feels like trust more than safety, but maybe trust makes you feel safe.

Kristin:

Yeah, then yeah, I guess yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm pointing that out for a reason, right?

Kristin:

Well, sometimes I've been a little too trusting in my life. What now?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, no, I'm just coming back to this, right? Which is um, I don't think anybody thinks should be make you feel safe outside of your own beliefs, actions, and um proacts and behaviors. Like, because you as you pointed out, like it's a dangerous thing to export. So trust, I'm a big fan of have you demonstrated character, even though you may be surprised because some people have a jar full of marbles from somebody and then they fuck up. Bad.

Kristin:

But well, I have the self-trust. That even if that person empties their marbles or loses the marbles or I shift perspective, it's like I know I'm gonna be okay. I'll be able to handle it, take care of myself, walk myself through it. Even if I feel like like a tornado in the heat of the moment, like I have a deep-seated belief that all things are gonna work out for my good, even if I can't see it in the moment.

SPEAKER_03:

That I get so so uh the one exception I would make to um X is to your safety is just like that that you know that you can respond to somebody else's um gap of character, uh um well-performed manipulation. Um and and that's kind of my my point is is is my whole thesis is we export so much and then suffer from that exportation. And and so, you know, you just struggling to I don't know what uh where I'd I'd look to someone else to keep me safe, I love, right? Because it's not their job.

Kristin:

Okay, good. I was like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm gonna quizzed.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, there's just such a fantasy that that that so many people hold about like being rescued and being taken care of.

Kristin:

Oh, I totally had that. Listen, listen, okay, even when we were dating like that song, like, I need a heady row, da-da-da-da-da-da-da. You know, I was like, yeah. And like, because we're so conditioned, like Disney wise. But then um, then I was working on my pilot not too long ago, and uh the song came over the speaker, and I was like, that spells pretty on par with where I'm at in my journey, and I'm gonna look for it right now. It's a Tina Turner song. Um, do you know which one I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, that she's the one who actually sings I need a hero.

Kristin:

Um it's funny that you did it for different teachers. Oh she sings um something else about I don't need another hero. I don't need another hero.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

Kristin:

Yeah. And so I was like, oh, wow. You hear that? And I was watching up my rotting partner and I was like, that feels pretty accurate right now. Like I am my own hero.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Yeah. That that is, you know, think of how much that's evolved for you. Like, I'm so happy to hear like that clarity because because once again, I keep wanting to be over your shoulder, going, hold on, like you're not keeping yourself safe. Hold on, you're not you're not being responsible for being your own hero. You're not like there, there's so many people that I get the fantasy and I get the yumminess of the fantasy, and I get how much you hurt yourself by denying reality and being your hero.

Kristin:

Yeah. I mean, there oh and there is a piece and it's like, I just want to be taken care of. I just want to be in the, you know, like it just feels so good about my feminine juiciness and like, mmm.

SPEAKER_03:

But what do you what's the cost of that? What are you giving away? You're actually giving away your safety. You're giving away, you're exporting your peace, you're exporting your control.

unknown:

Right?

SPEAKER_03:

What's the difference between being the driver's seat and being the passenger seat? The passenger can yell and scream and shout warnings, but can't turn, can't break, can't adjust. Get the fuck out of the passenger seat in your car.

Kristin:

Yeah, I get that. And I also think it's a balance, like the reciprocity.

SPEAKER_03:

I know. That's because you want to be romantic and you want to hold that fantasy.

Kristin:

No, no, no. Like, like, no, like, because I feel like being in the feminine essence gives so much to the masculine man. You know, to the masculine. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03:

A thousand percent we are interdependent.

Kristin:

Yeah. We like not it's like I will never be completely fully reliant upon like a man solely, right? Even though I'm interdependent and I have a lot of male clients. Thank you. And I love you guys. But like, but in that relationship type of way.

SPEAKER_03:

Because I mean, that's the fun thing to celebrate. And you and I have talked about this since I've known you, which is the last thing I want is me. I got a thousand percent CR. Fuck, I don't need any more me. And so, like, my relationships, the people I let into the castle are very not me because they make my life so much better by being them, which is not me. Like, so that they're, you know, you are very feminine and you're and you're super emotional, and and there's a lot of things about you that um is very kind of um classically feminine. And that's who you are, and you should a thousand percent celebrate that. And that also means that you can't be everything. There's things you're not. And let's let's, reality in reality terms, let's understand, okay, here's all the things I bring to the table, and I am all that in a bag of chips. But like, there's a thousand other presentations of humanity that are interesting and when combined with all the wonderful things I am, make me better, make them better, make us better. Like, that's the joy of a relationship is all the shit that you're not, and celebrating it and not trying to be it. So I'm not minimizing that another person can't bring a ton to your life because they expand it into them as well. But your stuff, you're responsible for. And and all the misery I see in my practice is people desperately wanting to be okay and to be seen and to be valued from someone else besides them. And it causes such misery.

Kristin:

Yeah. What's the solution? I mean, I guess the how I mean, I know we know it's the coming home to oneself and like being one's own advocate and pilot and all those things.

SPEAKER_03:

And to grieving the loss of the fantasy.

Kristin:

Yeah.

unknown:

Right?

Kristin:

I think we did a lot of that in 2025.

SPEAKER_03:

I think we did. You know, we need to grieve the wish for what we got as parents. You need to grieve what we wish we had in childhood. And we lost something, which is we are supposed at 12 get a pointy stick and be let out into the forest to go hunt and to bring up the tri macabore and to realize that we're no longer gathering. You go get your own pointy stick. You're a badass, you could do this. But we got a signal when we stopped being dependent, and we got to be interdependent back when we were in nature. And that's a really important signal because it shifted us from I need these things from other people. And sometimes, you know, when I first started being a therapist, I worked with kids, and sometimes I just had to get them to survive their parents. And and there is there is a tragedy of dependence, which is we're surrounded and dependent with um imperfect humans. And we have to grieve that, but we also then have to recognize a transition. And there's people that are 83 years old that didn't see the transition and are still looking around to be safe and are still looking around to be cared for and are still mad and sad about that. And the truth is it's been their fucking job since they were 12.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And we'd never our society doesn't do that anymore. Our society doesn't give us the pointy stick and say, come into the tribe as an equal. Right? And and it does us a disservice.

Kristin:

Where does that come from? Is that like something I'm curious now, like the tribe stick thing? Like, is that just something that you're used to?

SPEAKER_02:

It's a serious.

Kristin:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

In my head, in my head.

Kristin:

Because I'm like, you're tapping into some of my Native American roots here. Um, but I'm like, uh I'm like, is can we expand?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, no, in my head, I see exactly that. Like the the Native American practice of the trial. I just saw some documentary where this girl was training for her initiation into the tribe, and she had to run every day because there's part of her initiation was like she had to go from point A to point B in a day. And it was hard and it was difficult. And it allowed her access to being an adult.

Kristin:

Were other like were other people in the tribe? Did they have different initiations? Like maybe hers was running somewhere, but like the say the shaman or the healer of the group, what did they have to get initiated by? Did they have to go sit in the hut and split it out?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I think I think there's some consistency, at least from what I know about Native American tradition, is there's consistency about that transition from dependence to interdependence. And that and in that interdependence, you have self-reliance and responsibility and accountability, right? Um and then each role, right? Like, are you good at pottery? Are you good at hunting? Are you good at uh getting high and communicating the spirits? Like, what's your role? What's your role? Um so but but I but I I do think that, you know, once again, the thesis of the fantasy hurts you even though it's yummy, which is my big thesis for the year, uh is acknowledging the costs. Playing the tape all the way through about giving up your power, giving up your safety.

Kristin:

The 10 isolating, right?

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, when you really think about I I read this really good book about responses to trauma. And the responses to trauma, the problem is they work kinda. I can avoid going outside, I can avoid dangerous places, I can avoid dangerous people, I can implement patterns that are predictable, um, including staying in abusive relationships or or numbing myself because I know what will happen.

Kristin:

Yeah, familiar chaos.

SPEAKER_03:

Isolating, right? I can push people away. That was a fan favorite of mine.

SPEAKER_04:

My world wall, right?

SPEAKER_03:

So that I can be any social. Um, and the problem is is those strategies work. And because they work, we reinforce it and it works. And then now suddenly I'm agrophobic. Now suddenly I don't have friends. Now suddenly I'm in patterns that I know suck, but I they're predictable patterns.

Kristin:

They're familiar. We feel safe with things.

SPEAKER_03:

And so it's these fantasies, it's these strategies that kind of work, but have huge long-term costs that our brains aren't good at challenging. We become very myopic. We're like, hey, I don't like this emotion. I can take this pill and stop it. I don't like getting backhanded after dinner, but I know I'm gonna survive it and it's familiar.

Kristin:

Yeah. Right? So it to me is also like what you're focusing on expands too.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Um, but the problem a thousand percent is is whatever you whatever strategies you employ that you have value or reinforce your beliefs. And if your belief is I'm not worthy of being loved, I'm not safe, fuck, you're gonna keep doing that. And it's gonna get bigger until something gets so painful you do something about it. And I I will tell, you know, I I do I deal with kids to um geriatric, and there's lots of people that take this shit to their grave. Most people do. Most people are lost in the game in this modern society of ours, which is external validation and and masks and uh performative transactions.

Kristin:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

So have they you and I both know there's something else you could choose.

Kristin:

Yeah. So if they don't want to play the game, if they're waking up right now and they're pissed off at you because you because I'll take all that idea.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, it's like Yeah, suddenly you click and it goes to six, you're like, fuck. There's more something bigger than a five.

Kristin:

Yeah. Or just like Oh, it's like you can't, it's like a knowing that you you can't retract from. Or maybe you'll numb yourself to try to forget it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Here's the things I know.

Kristin:

Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

We are accountable to ourselves for our safety. We're accountable for ourselves for defining our worth. We're accountable to ourselves to give ourselves something interesting that makes us proud. Those are our jobs. Other people are only to protect yourself from, at least the outside the full wall, or to expand your life for the things they bring that you aren't, to celebrate their weirdness. And so when you're mad at your partner for all the shit that they do that isn't you, flip that in your head. Isn't that great that they're bringing something to the table that you're not?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And after that, be on guard for fantasy.

Kristin:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Play it all the way out.

Kristin:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Play out the short-term yumminess and make sure the cost isn't too much to bear. And I promise you, avoidance, isolation, um, entitlement, um, uh displaced anger, um, all of that, those costs are really, really expensive to your like I I did this with a client, and since I'm not naming it, I can talk a little bit about it. Um, they were just struggling with purpose. And so I brought them together and I brought him his a bunch of peers in and we we sat knee to knee and we celebrated his 80th birthday.

SPEAKER_01:

His 80th birthday?

SPEAKER_03:

His 80th.

SPEAKER_01:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03:

And I said, Who's here? My brother's here, my wife's here, my kids are here. Doesn't have a wife today, you know, but populated the birthday party. And I didn't allow him to be him. I allowed I took he had to be one of his kids. Somebody else had to play the role of it. And I had each person talk to him about his birthday and what he meant to them and what it was, including the role of him. And then he had to play his youngest daughter, who doesn't exist yet, and tell him what her life meant to him. And that's what I mean by playing your what like what are these beliefs, what are these patterns, what are these safe keeping strategies do for you when you turn 80? Is there other investments to make that are a little harder today, but give you an amazing, satisfied life when you're done?

Kristin:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Like And that's that, that's the thing that I just see so much is that the pain of sobriety, the pain of not numbing, the pain of accountability, the pain of internalizing your own safety and your own value, and then going, fuck, I got some work to do to be proud of this, makes people not do it. And yet a decade goes by and their misery mounts. And it will continue to your grave until you make different choices and you invest in yourself and you take accountability and responsibility and make good choices. And fuck, be nice to yourself. Because most people aren't very nice to themselves. Even the drug addicts that say, What are you talking about? Let out selfish I am. I'm stealing from people so I can be high. Like, yeah. How's that going? How's your happiness? How's your safety? How's your peace? How's your pride? You're terrible to yourself. And this is this short-term thing that helps you turn off, but it doesn't solve your problems. How long do you want to do that? What does your 80th birthday look like if you you get give yourself a different choice?

Kristin:

Yeah. I like that exercise.

SPEAKER_03:

Me too.

Kristin:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

What's your 80th birthday book and let go?

Kristin:

Hmm. Um right now I'm like sitting on the porch drinking coffee with uh, you know, a partner.

SPEAKER_03:

Who's else who else gets to come to your party?

Kristin:

Well, um maybe they're kiddos. I don't think Boudreaux will still be around then.

SPEAKER_03:

Boudra Boudreau IV might be there, though.

Kristin:

Maybe a descendant of Boudreaux. Yeah. Um my 80th birthday. I hope my my little brother, you know, my my my brother, older brother, hopefully my older sister.

SPEAKER_02:

Um is your youngest a boy or girl?

Kristin:

My youngest brother.

SPEAKER_03:

Your youngest child.

Kristin:

My youngest child.

SPEAKER_03:

Is it a boy or girl?

Kristin:

I don't know. See, that's the thing. I don't know if um my if I am going to have kids myself.

SPEAKER_03:

Is your youngest a boy or girl? Call the ball.

SPEAKER_01:

A girl.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. What story does she tell you on your 80th birthday? What does she celebrate you for?

SPEAKER_01:

Inspiring possibilities and like nurturing care.

SPEAKER_02:

How was your life?

SPEAKER_01:

Beautiful to watch unfold.

SPEAKER_03:

What role did you play in it?

SPEAKER_01:

A guide.

SPEAKER_03:

What model were you? How'd you model how did you model life for her to follow?

Kristin:

Um, acting in integrity. Speaking and living my truth.

SPEAKER_03:

Not playing the game, probably.

Kristin:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

That's a gift. That's a gift. That's a pretty good 80th birthday girl. And those are the things that help us get clarity on the things we let go of. There's 50 paths in front of you. I know how much you got going on. There's 50 paths in front of you. What path do you choose to give yourself the 80th birthday that tears you up?

Kristin:

I mean, I tell you, it's not, I wasn't thinking about all of the shit that I was I've done, you know. I didn't think about my book. I didn't think about this podcast or the impact, you know. And I feel like that's such a longing of mine, is that I longed to like inspire those possibilities or and that, but that didn't come up when I was thinking about my 80th birthday.

SPEAKER_03:

But you modeling you modeling a strong woman who does not defer to others, does not chase external validation, does not succumb her safety to others and then get a half-assed version of it back.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

That's one hell of a gift to give the next generation.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And in your world, a hell of a gift to give pieces of to everyone else.

Kristin:

It's like I became the person that I needed for her. You know, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03:

And they're for you.

Kristin:

Yes, but like little me. I was thinking about little me.

SPEAKER_03:

I know what you're saying.

Kristin:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

But you know, once again, you became the person that you need to be so that when you're 80, you're safe and you're happy and you are grateful. And in what you just described, you were able to share that. That's a good 80th birthday party. And that's, you know, that's kind of what I I'm stumbling upon is the stories and the fantasies we get lost in for very, very short-term gains and to feed a story we learned when you were young to try to make sense of something that doesn't make sense.

Kristin:

Mm-hmm. Can I ask for a distinction?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, ma'am.

Kristin:

Like the fantasies. I put that. Um, and I think it's important to have the vision. So is it just extending the vision and just getting clear on what your are illusional kind of fantasies versus asking?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that we call it playing out the tape, which is, you know, you got 12 choices in front of you. And the challenge is most of us when we're stressed, know what A does, know what that A button is. And it's giving yourself enough time and safety to choose something different than that automatic knee jerk. I'm throwing hands, I'm grabbing a bottle, I'm running away, I'm blaming someone else. Like the shit that the the maladaptions to make sense of stuff that got us through here. And I've I'll give you a story real quick and then I'll answer the question. So, you know, I work for the highest level of mental care you can have. So above me is is hospitalization, like, you know, medicate and stabilize and keep people from hurting themselves. So I'm residential. I'm just that next step down. So pretty high level of care and a a lot of acute, multiple issues around trauma and organic issues and chemical dependence and all the rest of it. And so so many people bring guilt and shame into being in a residential facility. That I talked to them about whitewater rafting. And whitewater rafting, um, you're in this bouncy boat in really bouncy water and you get thrown out. And when you get thrown out, the water's going this way and that way, and this way, and that way, and this way and that way. You're tumbled so fast and so hard and so vigorously by a force beyond your physical ability control, you don't know which way is up, and you're going to drown. That's just the nature of the white water. And all you can do is grab a hold of the thing around you that floats and trust it to get you to the surface to breathe. And whatever that was that got you through that, have some grace and some passion for yourself for it. It got you through the rapids. But those rapids spit you out into the smooth. And when you're in the smooth, this vest starts to waterlog and it starts to be the thing that drowns you. And you've got to recognize that just because it saved you and you have grace for it doesn't mean it serves you anymore. And you gotta take it off.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And so much of what away. Thank you. Um see our heroes made up bullshit what they do in therapy.

Kristin:

That's really beautiful, though.

SPEAKER_03:

But it so many people have shame that they used it to survive, and they shouldn't, or have sadness about letting it go because it did save their life. But they don't recognize their situation has changed.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

That they get the pointy stick now. And so I struggle with both of those, right? Like, hey, let's not pretend that you wouldn't just get through the rapids and you just had to survive it. You did what you had to do. Let's not pretend you still need to. So, you know, getting clear to back to your question, getting clear on, hey, um, it's messy and strange and I'm imperfect, and and I did what I needed to do based on the tools I had to keep going down the river. And some of it were mistakes. Okay. All right. But if I can paddle and steer, I've got a much better life in front of me than if I just get tumbled and bounced off the rocks because I'm sitting in my passenger seat.

Kristin:

Yeah. Or, you know, towed, towed in by another boat.

SPEAKER_03:

And in allow the unromantic version of life to be true, which is it would have been nice to be saved. It would have been nice to have somebody else responsible for my happiness. It would have been nice to have somebody else to keep me safe.

Kristin:

I still like romantic, romanticizing life, though. As far as this goes, like, right? For me, I'm just making it a little lighter.

SPEAKER_03:

And you know, I'm not gonna accept any of that.

Kristin:

No, but but like I'm saying, like this next scene right now is like, okay, for myself.

SPEAKER_03:

For you. But you're you're already operating outside of the fantasy. Okay so when I when I think about the people watching this, I'm gonna be a lot more stern, which is I get the comfort, I get the wish, I get the denial, um, but I also get the cost. And I've seen the cost, I've experienced the cost, and I wish for better for you. Now, once you're accepting of the very unromantic reality, which is it's my job to take care of myself, it's my job to be safe, it's my job to give myself something interest that that makes me proud. You can gratefully accept the company of the people that walk the path with you. And stretch yourself to include their weirdness and give your weirdness to them to stretch them so that they get a better life. That's a kindness both ways. Be alert that they're imperfect, be alert that they're not psychic, and be alert that I don't care how romantic it is, do not give away your safety. Do not give away your care to someone else, even though it's romantic. They're not good at it, they're not psychic, and it's not their fucking job.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

The healthiest relationship you'll ever have is one of interdependence, where you each bring whole healthy people that we're gonna share themselves and feel safe enough to do so. So, with the time we have left, what does that mean with be here all day, grunt?

Kristin:

I know. I mean, that feels like a pretty good note to like end on at the same time. Then we're gonna come back to more. We didn't answer I have all these questions. I don't think I asked one, which duh, of course that's gonna happen. Um, but it just makes me feel more grounded going into it. I mean, there's an optional, it doesn't even feel right to do this optional lightning round.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I like the questions on the actual lightning round. Let's do it. Let's keep let's come back to physicality because of the nature of your podcast and the nature of the content I've seen you share. I have my version of be careful of the cost of your behaviors. Be careful to connect what you really want. Like the equation that always scares me is sex equals love. It does not. Like that is not an equation that's true. Sex is a physical experience that involves two people's body parts that um can be a thousand things. It can be um pleasureful, it can be painful, it can be safe, it can be scary, it can be uh fantasy driven, it could be obligation driven, it can involve 12 people, it can involve just you. Whatever. All that's true. All of that has consequences, and none of it is love. You may choose to have a physical interaction in order to try to communicate with one or more people something that's worthy of peeling apart and having a discussion that perhaps we'll do next time because it's a long discussion.

Kristin:

What if you're moving intentionally in the world from a place of love, though?

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. Love can be, once again, my version of my version of love is to want somebody to be happy regardless of how to do it. So I can if I if I start from that definition, um if they love you, what do they want?

Kristin:

Yeah, and I guess it's like a clarification as well. Like, are you seeking validation through the act of sex versus like sharing like something really beautiful?

SPEAKER_03:

That's a big one, right? Because sometimes the the performance is doing something so that people see you in a certain way, so that they stay, or that they see you as some sex kitten, or that it allows you to do an exchange, like that's such a big topic, is um how sex can be performative for other things besides what you really are looking for, which is can I feel connected to a lot of people think of sex as I want to connect in a special way to another person and do all the stuff that's a lot of people think that this day and age?

Kristin:

Do you think a lot of people think that this day and age?

SPEAKER_03:

I think everybody does.

Kristin:

I think deep down they may long for it. I don't know if it's pounded into our culture, though, like that.

SPEAKER_03:

I I'm going to absolutely be available to be a thousand percent wrong, but at my core, I think people pursue intimate relations to feel connection, safety, and to be seen and to allow somebody to give them access. Like I think that there's something fundamental there that there's a longing. And you know, I do a lot of work around sex addiction. Um and that a lot of times for people that are avoidance, like they can't tie it doesn't feel safe to to allow people. And so sex it becomes uh analog, it becomes that that that uh stand-in for connection, but it doesn't give it to them. And so they desperately have physical acts and never feel seen, heard safe. And that's what I, you know, I I once again I just keep wishing them on your shoulder, going, hold on, hold on. Like, what's your truth? What do you want? What do you need? And are you giving it to yourself, or are you actually pursuing it in a way that never and you're on a cycle, it never gives you what you need. And around and around and around you go, because there's a lie you're telling yourself. And one of them is sex is love. Um, one of them is if I do this, I will be special, or if I do this, I will be safe. All three of those are true. All three of those are true.

Kristin:

I I agree with the deep yearning intimacy scene. And I think it goes back to what we were talking about at the beginning and throughout this conversation of with the mask. And being able to really feel that connection. With the mask or the layers of trauma or whatever we want to Which means you can't. Yeah. That's what's I guess.

SPEAKER_03:

You're having you're having sex with Perfect CR. And Perfect CR, while he had a great time, I don't feel it because I don't believe this is about me. Yeah. And if Perfect CR was performative, I didn't even get to be there to enjoy it. I was too busy trying to get you to experience something. And now I've experienced a wild night of nothing but manipulation because I needed something different, which is to be safe or to be valued. So perfect CR sucks. Because he prevents us from having.

Kristin:

What about the people that are just like, this is way too fucking deep? I just want to do that.

SPEAKER_03:

So we'll we'll end with something very simple. Be purposely kind to yourself by knowing who you are, what you need, and acting to directly provide that for you and stop telling yourself a lie about what does that doesn't. Play this tape all the way forward and get to your 80th birthday happy, safe, and content.

Kristin:

Yeah. And whether that's like the one person or the 10 people, it's don't care.

SPEAKER_03:

But but tell yourself the fucking truth about that.

Kristin:

What now?

SPEAKER_03:

But tell yourself the truth about it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And choose intentionally.

SPEAKER_01:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03:

All right. Next podcast. Nothing but sex. Nothing but bodies. Nothing but nerve endings.

Kristin:

Okay, cool. Perfect. Um, so should we do the little lightning rounds? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I love lightning rounds. Let's go.

Kristin:

Okay. Well, there's um a truth about sex most people aren't ready to hear yet, but I think you just covered that one.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that that that uh the that sex is safe, sex is love, sex is um uh connection. None of those are true.

Kristin:

Yeah, okay. A red flag that looks like desire.

SPEAKER_03:

Intensity. Always for me, for me, it's always intensity.

Kristin:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

It that's the one I always get confused on because the passion or the intensity or the interesting interesting, crazy, um uh dangerous, um, unregulated, all that that's not particularly healthy and not particularly nurturing and not particularly loving, that intensity is easy for me to confuse with passion.

Kristin:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. And I guess the bigger question is what is the what is the healthy version of passion? And that I'm gonna suck because once again, I don't like the fantasy. The healthy version of passion is to love someone so much that you want them to be happy even if it doesn't make you to start there. And to require them to start there too.

Kristin:

Mm-hmm. And I think slow builds. There's a lot of um I the butterfly feeling. I've read where a lot of things were fantasy, fantasy, fantasy, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that it's like a warning signal instead of the the fantasy.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, because butterflies is anxiety usually. And anxiety is I don't feel safe and I'm worried. And a lot of times what you do when you don't feel safe and you're worried is you lean heavily into how do I manipulate this to feel safe. And it becomes informative.

Kristin:

Or yeah, or on the recipient and this little fucker shows up again. Yeah. Okay. A green flag that often gets overlooked.

SPEAKER_03:

Kindness. The strongest thing anybody can be in this world is kind. And our society fucks that up, and people fuck that up. And I'll be honest, and this isn't to be uh binary in my approach to male and females, but a lot of times women make the mistake of seeing kindness as weakness, and that you know, people think, oh, you're you're simple, you're not paying attention, you're being a sucker. And the people that know they're being thought of that way, the people that society is telling them that they're weak or stupid for being that, they're fucking strong enough to be kind anyway, are the ballers. Yeah, kindness is sexy. Because you've done some work and you've you've let go of some fantasies.

Kristin:

Yeah, I no longer want a uh a love after lockup.

SPEAKER_03:

But you know, and this isn't please don't take this as anything negative, but it's it's a common trap for people on the feminine side of the spectrum, which is I like to be held. I like that, you know, I like that person to demonstrate safety in some way. My answer is always gonna be fuck that. Be safe, be held to connect, and don't look, don't externalize any of that shit. Um, and that's that's just the drum I'm gonna beat for a while. Because I I just see so many people as the source of their own sadness because they're they're exporting their needs, they're exporting their safety.

Kristin:

Source. Oh, I love alliteration. Source of your own sadness. And sometimes you need a little antidepressant chemical help. Thank you, Well Buton.

SPEAKER_02:

Um are you on well? Well Butin is the best.

Kristin:

If you're on Well Butran, I'm so awesome.

SPEAKER_03:

It's the best, it's the best ADD, right? Cut it's I don't get irritable. It's not all the stems. Yeah, yeah. So hopefully you get sponsored by Well Button after this because they they got a bunch of money because we prescribe it constantly. It's such a good um way to address that ADD impulsivity and without giving you all the STEM. Like I'm a big fan of it.

Kristin:

Yeah, I'm a big fan too. I was like, wow, so some people's brains work. Or and also it just like helped my tin toes get on the, you know, want to get out of bed and and step towards my dream. Yeah. Um, and I feel like more myself. I can I still have my emotions. It's it's been good for me. Yeah, okay, one sentence to reframe resentment.

SPEAKER_03:

Are you are you gonna it wasn't their job, it was yours.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, okay.

Kristin:

Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, accountability reframes resentment.

Kristin:

I kind of like um everyone comes to the table or like looking through the window with their own life experiences, beliefs, makeup, so their choices make sense to them.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I I don't think anybody does evil intentionally. I think everybody is myopic and self-centered because of our human condition. And that's not evil. Like, like that's just our human condition. We are um we are innately egocentric because we're locked inside these meat bags that we walk around with. Um and see that for what it is. So are you, so am I, so is everybody. Now what? Now what do you do to give yourself a good 80th birthday party? Given that's the rules. Protect yourself, be kind to yourself, enjoy others, don't look to others to make your life okay. It's not their job.

SPEAKER_01:

Cheers.

SPEAKER_03:

Cheers.

Kristin:

Anything else you want to draw?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes. Congratulations once again on your podcast growing and being shared and all this hard work that you didn't recognize was affecting so many people in such great ways, being recognized and helping people. I'm very proud of you.

Kristin:

Yeah, I'm I'm proud of myself and I'm celebrating it for sure because there was a moment that I was gonna give it up where I was like, I was like, you know, I'm like, do do I, do I keep going? And then and then turns out I'm just looking at the wrong analytics. And then um, and also, but also just like moving forward in bold faith that it reaches who it needs to reach. And and I'm grateful for that. And I see it as a contribution.

SPEAKER_03:

I think you're doing amazing work. I think you have really good conversations that allow people to be intentional, and that's such a gift. And so my last piece before we sign off is I love you, and I'm so happy for you being nice to yourself and giving yourself a good life. And I celebrate however that runs with whatever boy or girl or turtle comes next. I'm so happy for you being kind to yourself and having what you deserve. Good job.

Kristin:

Thank you. I love you too.

unknown:

Good.

SPEAKER_03:

Have a wonderful January. We will schedule something about body whenever you have.

Kristin:

Well, and I'd love to get you in the studio in person.

SPEAKER_03:

Um, um, any studio uh you live in the home of Rudy's and my uh my nieces are so much better than Rudy's. Uh we're gonna end on a nice note. I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear any of that.

Kristin:

Barbecue tour of Austin.

SPEAKER_03:

So I'm always down for that deal.

Kristin:

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03:

All right, we won't we won't fight about Rudy's though.

Kristin:

And stay weird, fam. I love you too. Thank you for being here, love, for listening with your whole heart, for listening to the very end, and for walking this wild path with me. If today's episode stirred something in you, whether a giggle, a tear, or a full-body yes, don't keep it to yourself. Share the magic, leave a review, drop me a note, or send it to a fellow sacred rebel who needs it. And remember, your story is sacred, your desires are divine, and your mess is part of the masterpiece. Keep showing up, keep feeling it all, and keep turning your life into poetry. Until next time, stay wild, stay tender, and stay true to that beautiful soul of yours. All my love, Kristen.