Sex, Drugs, & Soul

From Ink to Canvas: How Recovery Catalyzed Jon McKenzie's Artistic Evolution

• Kristin Birdwell • Season 4 • Episode 8

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This week, Austin-based artist Jon McKenzie is on the pod!

We explore how creativity becomes emotional nutrition, the importance of expressing your voice in a noisy world, his thoughts on AI, and how recovery ignited a new level of purpose and dedication to his craft.

Timestamps:
00:00 — Introduction: From tattoos to artistry & recovery
02:00 — How Jon’s apprenticeship shaped his creative ethos
04:00 — Getting sober in Austin & the turning point that changed everything
07:45 — The first commission piece and finding purpose after detox
10:30 — Balancing paid work with creative passion
12:15 —  Art as “emotional nutrition” and creating amidst chaos
15:00 — The trap of productivity vs. the call to create from the heart
17:00 — The purpose of art: conversation, curiosity, and connection
20:00 — When clients see you in your work (even when you don’t)
22:45 — Anxiety, childhood, and art as an outlet for emotion
26:00 — Shifting from realism toward emotional expression
28:30 — Revisiting the inner child through art
31:00 — Old-school inspiration, vintage ads, & retro aesthetics
33:00 — AI & art: tool or threat?
38:00 — The optimism we need in a pessimistic world
41:00 — Safety, tattoos, and the art of being unapologetically yourself
44:00 — Values, courage, and creating what you believe in
48:00 — Behind-the-scenes of Jon’s next chapter & how to follow his work

Connect with Jon:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonmckenzie/
https://www.instagram.com/varsitywalls/

Connect with Kristin:
Website
Instagram
YouTube

Kristin's Best-Selling Book:
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Kristin (00:00.334)
I'm excited to get rocking and rolling today. Another episode of Sex, Drugs and Soul, I have on Jon McKenzie. He is a new friend and very talented artist. We may dive into art, the creative process, possibly the intersection of that with recovery. We'll see where it goes. I'd love to just like dive in and see like what's turning you on in life right now or what is making you feel the most alive in or out of the bedroom.

So I guess when I think about my own personal motivation, as you know, I'm a working artist and what that entails for me, there's a million ways to, as you said, skin a cat, to work in the arts, right? And so for me, I got my start by...

Well, all through my 20s I tattooed. And so when I moved out to Austin, I left that alone and started doing art, you And I wanted to do that.

I was curious, like if there was a moment, I'm going more full, you know, full send this artist's journey. I mean, cause I think tattooing is still art, but like in a different capacity of years.

A thousand percent. know, tattooing is craft, it's trade, it's like any medium, you know? so, but there's also this whole independent ethos that surrounds tattooing. And you kind of have to be all in on that if you want to. Now it's changed over the years. Like back when I tattooed, it's different than it is now. Younger and younger people are getting into it. People are coming out of like,

Jon McKenzie (01:45.482)
art school and going and getting apprenticeships. That wasn't really, as much of a thing when I did it, but, back when I did it, it was still kind of like a hardcore deal. had this hardcore apprenticeship and the rub, the deal was, you know, if you can weather this year and a half or whatever your apprenticeship is, you will. And it's sent to be rewarded with a skillset that will feed you the rest of your life, you know,

And so for me, I went through all that and then kind of just discovered, you know, I went into tattooing in the beginning because I was just a young party animal kid. And I was like, what can I do that's artistic that'll make me money? That's what got me into it. But after doing it for, you know, seven, eight years, I was like, I think that my heart kind of belongs on the canvas. And that's where really I want to go.

But, you know, you can't just sit and paint your own pieces all the time. have to take commissions.

Yeah, how do you balance that? Like, or do you still reserve time? Like, if you're busy, like, doing the commission stuff, do you still, like, weave in time dedicated to your...

Yeah, so you have to like buy your time. And so to answer your first question, like, I think that that's, that's like where almost the entirety of my focus has been lately is like, do I produce more of my works? You know, I feel like we're in a time that's like super duper crazy and there's a lot to be said. And that's one of the purposes and, vehicles that art provides is, being able to like give a voice where you otherwise wouldn't have one.

Jon McKenzie (03:28.728)
You know? And in a lot of ways, it's like kind of creating your own works is like emotional nutrition in a way, you know? Creativity is just in general. And commissions are not always that, know, commissions are work. And so if Kristin comes to me and says like, I want a portrait of my French bulldog, you know.

and so

Love that term.

Jon McKenzie (03:55.202)
I probably didn't wake up that week and say like, I really want to do a, an illustration of a French bulldog. Sure. Sure. And I've done a lot of animal portraits. and I think for me, when I transitioned out of my twenties and moved here to Austin, was like, bam, I got sober. Right? Like that's the first thing that I did here in Austin was like B and D talks.

Wow, because like, remember when I moved to Austin, I was like, I'm gonna have to learn how to pick my battles when I moved to Austin, because it was such like a booze in town. Oh, I know. so it was interesting. Okay, so you moved to Austin and you're instantly in detox or recovery. What's the story behind that?

So, mean, was, I don't know, can you, do we cuss on your posture? sure. Yeah, so I was like fucked up when I got here. yeah, I was just fucked up, you know? I was all like, I was a drunk, that was my deal, you know, I was a drunk. And so I had, you know, in tattooing in my 20s, I was constantly trying to get sober, constantly.

And I would do it on my own. would use 12 step programs, all of it, you know, two weeks here, two weeks there. And I just gotten really bad off and kind of wound up in Austin. just me driving, you know, meandering, trying to figure out some place to go to get away out of Dallas. That's where I was. And, you know, I'll, I'll fast forward one thing led to another. was like immediately in detox.

Uh, detox is, kind of like rehab much shorter, 20 days, you know, in there, they're like, what are you going to do when you get out of here? I'm like, I don't know. And they're like, what do you do for a living? I'm like, I tattoo, but I don't think I want to do that anymore. Cause I, I keep getting drunk when I go back to it and they were like, well, you need to go to sober living. like, what the, what's that? So I did, they hooked me up with a sober living. went and, uh, there.

Jon McKenzie (06:05.388)
The guy that owned it was like, you need to get a job within 30 days. And I had been tattooing for quite some time. And so I didn't really know what to do. I asked him, could I try doing art for a living? And he was like, no, you need to get like a job. And no fault to him. I mean, it probably sounds preposterous, you know, some kid just getting out of detox who doesn't have a background.

and doing commission pieces saying like, is what I want to try. So I went and worked at Walgreens and I did art at night. And that was like 11, 10, 11 years ago. Wow. And so.

I love that you believed in the possibility though. And I think though, it's like no matter, mean, we get both. I feel like I grew up with parents that said, okay, well you better have a backup plan if you wanna do this storytelling thing. one that was like, the sky's the limit, you can do anything.

I felt like you were going to touch on that. And like my, was thinking about that when I was like driving over here and I was like, you know, had I known how difficult a career in the arts was, I probably wouldn't have done it, including in tattooing. You know, tattooing, you're like developing your own clientele. And fortunately for me,

Back then, Instagram was just getting its start and so it was easier to build a following back then and you didn't have to do as much as I think young tattooers have to do now with marketing themselves. It's so competitive. Back then you just had to not be an asshole and clients would come back to you.

Kristin (07:50.99)
Some people still may find that a challenge though.

Yeah, but for sure, you know, like for sure.

I'm curious, like, so tell me about getting that first commission piece too.

So I think that I had the benefit in my corner of naivety when it came to like doing art for a living. so for me in sober living, I got this job at like Walgreens and all I knew is that I hated it. You know, I was like, fuck dude, like is this, this isn't going to work. You know, I was having a real tough time. was like going to, I was like working a register, having a tough time being told like when to take lunch and

Only 30 minutes. like, what is this? How it is like in this? And so I was hustling to try to figure out how to do art. Now I had the benefits of developing a clientele, on Facebook, on Instagram for tattooing. And so I just kind of said, Hey, look, this is what I'm doing now. Like I'm, I'm taking art commissions and.

Jon McKenzie (09:03.886)
Simultaneously, I was hustling around Austin trying to find little creative communities that I could embed myself in, glad hands, shake hands, do all that bullshit. There's a part of me that still enjoys that now, but I had way more energy for it 10 years ago. But I'm so glad that I did it because that's really what it took initially.

getting like a bunch of like, especially back then, like $300 illustration commissions, like it's fine for paying like sober living rent, but it wasn't gonna like sustain me long-term. so fortunately for me, it just kind of like worked out where as my bills increase, my clientele was enriched and I really tried hard to deliver

pieces that the clients wanted, be kind, like be punctual, hit the deadlines that were required, and I treated it like a business.

Yeah. It sounds like you had a good like hit on your shoulders or like to hit the ground running and you know, a little fire lit under your ass too, probably. But like, you know, feel like sometimes like the contrast illuminates like what we don't want. Like I gotta get out of here.

Yeah. Yeah. And so now it's like so much more real, but at the same time, I'm like more motivated than ever to like produce original works. And so when you're a commission based artist, taking time to like produce original works can seem foolhardy. It can seem like a bad decision. Like, why would I do that? I need to be like, yeah, I need to be putting my time and resources into either marketing or

Kristin (10:50.062)
like a gamble or something.

Jon McKenzie (10:56.334)
You know, nowadays it's like making reels or whatever it is, feeding this business somehow. so producing original works is.

Jon McKenzie (11:10.53)
In a sense, think almost like an obligation when you're an artist. It's like, it doesn't matter if it's going to make you money or not. Like I need to be using my voice to

illustrate the things that I believe in that I think are important and leave my mark that way, you know.

Yeah, especially this. I know you mentioned like these times too, and to use our voice. It's like using our voice now, chaos all around us. All around us. More AI and all that stuff. I was just going to say too, I just recently started implementing an hour a day of writing because I felt like there was something just gnawing at me. You're not doing the thing that you're, or one of the things you're supposed to do here while you're here and it was causing a bit of anxiety.

a lot a certain amount of time. Do you just find kind of carve it out when you can get it out?

So it kind of looks like this with my schedule. I'll have like, so I have this big old whiteboard in my apartment and I scroll perspective jobs, for sure jobs, things that are booked. And I'm like constantly chewing through that and that tells me like what is up next. And you try to estimate how long something's gonna take.

Jon McKenzie (12:29.994)
you know, when a client approaches you, like if they just want, you know, I don't do as many like pet illustrations nowadays, but you know, it's like if somebody came to me and asked about that, it'd be like, it would take, you know, two days or whatever. They want this big painting, maybe two weeks. And so you have to feather it in in between there. The complicated part is

finding the motivation to do so after you've been doing your hustle.

I get it. You know, it's something I used to like long for is to be paid for writing. And then once I started ghost writing, I was like, shit. Yeah. I was so elated at first, but then like, I kind of like begrudgingly did it a little bit. And I was like, but now I'm like, about things I once prayed for or hope.

It's so funny hearing you say it. It's so crystal clear to me. It's like, Kristin, don't do that. I mean, do that. Do your ghost writing, but you need to like, that's not why you're here. You know? And so it's so crystal clear when I hear other artists talk about their craft versus their trade. Yeah, the answer is crystal clear. But for me, I can easily

find myself in this like rhythm of like, no, need, I need to be like insulating myself. need, I need to be booking more jobs. I need to be thinking ahead more and more and more. The older you get, the more you think ahead, you know, at least for me. And so I can easily wind up in this like panic place of how do I net bigger jobs, higher ticket sales, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Jon McKenzie (14:16.686)
And so it gets so dizzying that I wind up back to square one, which is like, need to be producing my own stuff. Like, fuck it, what does it matter anyways? Just keep the bills paid.

You know? I'm like, you need to move over your head.

Yeah, you need a roof over your head, but it's like, what am I?

Yeah, yeah, I don't think we were put on this earth just to solely rely upon that and it was

I was so attached to the idea of like, have to be able to like buy a house with my art. you know, that's still a goal, but I think that I was like preoccupied with like.

Jon McKenzie (15:00.716)
You know, you have, you have all the necessary stuff like health insurance and this and that, but then, know, you have your dreams and, and nice things that you want. I want an nicer car or this or that. And it's, I can very easily get like married to all that bullshit. And it doesn't matter if, you know, an asteroid plows into her tomorrow, you know.

Aren't there a couple of ones that come by close?

They're around now. They're all like kind of spooky looking and shit.

getting us a little bit of like butthole clenching. So maybe we get working towards what we want to do or get clarity on it. I'm curious like, it's kind of what would you want people, is there something that you want to leave with people that like observe your heart? Do you want to move them in a certain way? And then I also want to like touch on AI, because like I have my own feelings about it I know you have your own feelings and thoughts about it.

Yeah. so.

Jon McKenzie (15:59.718)
You know, when you, when you develop a client base for commission pieces, they, they come, they come to you or whoever, whatever, whoever artist they, they, they go to them because they like that artist. They they're familiar with an aspect of their story or they're, they just like them as a person or whatever. And so because.

people are coming to me because they've enjoyed me as a person. You know, if they like somebody else, they might go to them. I feel like there's at least a part of my client base that is interested in like what I have to say. so that's motive, that feels safer to me and less risky than say if I were a 20 year old kid that went to art school, got spat out the other end after they graduate and they don't

they know their aunts and uncles and that's it. You know, it can feel, I don't know what that feels like. You know, that's not my experience, but for me,

Jon McKenzie (17:11.756)
I think nowadays with how crazy everything is, it's easy to get opinionated and nobody's really listening to one another. And as time goes on, people just continually double down more on their thoughts and opinions. And I think art is one of those safe ways to express something where it's like, look,

Nobody's here to argue with you when you're looking at a canvas, you know, you're you're safe to like take in a maybe a different viewpoint and Maybe a piece of art resonates with you differently than it would this other guy, you know And that's like one of the purposes of art and that's really motivating to me

That's beautiful. Has anyone ever come up to you and been like, I love how you did this or I had this takeaway from it. And it's been like, well, that's not necessarily my intention, but I'm glad you had that or walked away with it. I felt that way with my book. Like some people are like, dah, dah, dah, dah. I can't think of something super specific, but I was like, that's interesting. That's not really exactly where I was going with that, but it was kind of a cool takeaway that they had had.

Yeah. So I think what always interested me is when I would hear, because I have done so much commission work over the last 10 years and not enough personal pieces, which like brings me to like, you know, this new season that I'm in right now. What I would think a lot is I'm, you know, I'm,

exacting whatever the client wants. And that's all I'm trying to do is I try to get as many details about what they want as possible and then execute those. And when you do that, it's easy to start believing that like stylistically, I haven't left my fingerprint on this piece. Because I'm like, just trying to do what Kristen wants or Tom or Dick or Harry or whatever. And so it was of interest to me.

Kristin (19:09.134)
You know?

Jon McKenzie (19:21.206)
Anytime I heard a client say, I saw you had a piece or such and such bought a piece from you and was hanging up at their apartment. saw it the other day and I instantly knew it was your work. And that would always like kind of make me go, really, you know, like, well, why? Like what about the piece made you know that it was like mine, you know? And so I always wanted to know that stuff on a very literal.

basis, like, you know, was it the line work? Was it the palette? Was it the, so I can either do more of that or less of that or, you know, or, you know, just, I like go back, go back through when I was like painting that piece and think about what I was thinking about then. And, so, you know, like doing commission work, just like any job is like war sometimes you're just.

My tail sign.

Jon McKenzie (20:15.598)
cranking it out and then it's like next, next, next, you know, and you don't have time to like, it can almost become like.

Jon McKenzie (20:26.528)
more of a product and less of like an artistic piece, you know, and you're just like turning out, you know, it's like building coffee tables, like an assembly line. And so it was interesting to me anytime somebody said that they like saw.

my voice in a commission piece. And so there's a part of me that made me want to find out what those things were and amplify those things, you know? And then there was a part of me that wanted to like rebel against that, you know, and say, well, that doesn't define me, you know? And it's interesting, I can like look back through all of my career and I could see how tattooing and tattooing

the artwork that is familiar in tattooing traditional. Back when I was doing it, there was this style called neo-traditional, which was like very 2000s coded type artwork, you know? Think like 3D and like, yeah, it's like traditional artwork, but done in a 3D like rad way and everything stretched out and very much a product of the times. But I was like influenced by all that stuff.

Okay, I'm trying to get an image.

Jon McKenzie (21:43.178)
and so as time goes on, continue to get influenced and it becomes this like stew.

I'm curious about the emotional component or getting lost in the sauce. That's my goal right now in some ways is to get lost in the sauce of creating something. It's helping me doing these bite-sized chunks of writing because I don't know where this is coming from, but this is fun. But there's been times where I've written before and I'll reread it and I'm like,

feels like it came from somewhere else or some other place? Like have you ever kind of been gotten lost in the sauce or like you looked at something like this came from me or?

Rarely and I wish I wish I like identified more with that and I think that one I think that I'm like super duper neurotic and I don't even know if I realized how how like anxiety driven of a person I was I'm trying to like work against that stuff now, you know, and it's like what do I need to do like cut out sugar? You know, it's like we're in the day and age of like

Yeah

Kristin (22:55.222)
I'm on day one of WellBeautry, so I know I-

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, we'll try this. You know, I'll try this therapist or I'll try that. So I was always like doing something to try to fix aspects of me. And I thought like, if I could just, if I could just figure this one thing out, I'll suddenly be like a.

carefree open vessel for creativity and my worries will dissipate and I won't be like, but I just think that's who I am, you know? And so when I think back to like little, little John and I've been drawing. so I've been drawing and painting since I was like very little. And when I think back of like that process when I was a kid, it's like, man, I was doing it because I was an anxious kid.

hear about him.

Jon McKenzie (23:51.038)
And then I took all that anxiety and I put it into the type of whatever I was drawing at the time, whether I was, you know, nine, 10, 11, whatever. And so for me, it was like baseball cards. would look at baseball cards and I would try to draw the portraits of like who had, Nolan Ryan a lot.

But off the rip, was like super interested in this idea of like realism. And I think that that's a certain type of kid. That's a certain type of brain of good art is a reflection of how realistic it is.

Yeah, I was thinking like, even with the anxiety, like there's so many people that can resonate with anxious feelings and with all that too. So even it's like, maybe even like looking at it could provide like a moment of being seen. It's like, okay, I know this feeling or I think, or like I'm seeing this and like, there's something about it. Maybe I can't even put my finger on it.

And thinking about all this stuff is new to me. Like last year. For all my self-awareness that I try to have of like, this is what's the matter with me. I need to work on this or I need to work on that or I need to work on this. It's like, I never quite got the picture that art, it's not meant, it's great when it's a vehicle to make money to pay your bills, but it's not meant to

only be that. And, you know, obviously when I was like 10, I wasn't thinking about making money from it. I was just thinking about getting better, better, better, better, better, better, better. And it was never, there was never a better enough. There was no point of satisfaction, which is why, like, if you're familiar with my work, I do a lot of realism.

Jon McKenzie (25:44.086)
Or other artists, when they look at my work, they would say that that's what I'm trying to do. You know, not everybody's going to be complimentary, you know? And so it's like I began to realize over the last like couple years that like, well, maybe what would it look like to start working that back a little bit? You know, it's like, okay, great. You prove into yourself that you're into realism. What would it look like to like meter that back and try to be

more expressive with different aspects.

Yeah, I'm curious if there is there a style and I'm not familiar with a lot of the different styles or the terminology behind it I know what I'm like. I like this, you know Is there something that you're wanting to dabble in or yeah, I'm interplay with or

Yeah. So I think that portraiture is like always going to be a part of my heart. It's always going to be, that's like, you know, this, this subset, this channel of realism is portraiture. And that's the direction I went very, very early. And so like it or love it or hate it. It's a part of like who I am now and it is what I do. And so.

it's probably going to be a part of like new original works. But I really liked the idea of kind of going back to that time when I was a kid and in more of a simplistic way, like trying to replicate what my art may have looked like back then paired with more realistic aspects.

Kristin (27:21.582)
You know what? It me wanna cry.

Yeah. mean, that's like when I, you know, I think when you get older, you look back and you're able to have compassion for yourself as a child. you should, at least our generation is getting that, you know, like maybe boomers not as much, but you know.

You want to be able to go, man, that dude was having a tough time and he continued to have a tough time. And he like tattooed his face and tried to be like safe, you know, and, now the proverbial threat could be global. could be the, the asteroid.

So it's like you're never gonna be like safe enough, you know?

Yeah, I don't know. I'm interested in how my art in particular can be a vehicle for me to make sense out of my own life and reflect that to a viewer, but also say, hey, this is kind how I believe about things, and this is what I believe.

Kristin (28:46.222)
think it could kind of be a cool, like I'm getting a visual like of whenever you're talking about it, you know, taking people on the evolution of journey from like your inner child to maybe even wrestling with the love or the fear between, you know, present day and like our inner kiddo. I think that could be really cool and relatable.

When you asked me about inspo a minute ago, like I'm notorious for not answering people's questions and just deviating and going off on a... I was trying to like, because I was such a... Because I was so interested in like getting better and better meant more realistic and that bar just, you you get to a certain point.

Okay, we can pinball wherever we need to go.

Jon McKenzie (29:36.846)
And that might be like replicating like a comic book character. To the letter, you know, and you're like, OK, I did that, so I'll try something more detailed.

Jon McKenzie (29:49.794)
Things that I would use for inspiration were very literal in the sense. So a lot of people might like go on vacation or go visit a certain place or get out in nature and they're inspired by that. For me, I would literally flip through books. And to this day, I've got a ton of like reference material. And so like a book of like fifties advertisements.

Mmm.

Jon McKenzie (30:17.58)
I'll flip through something like that and my mind will start like ping-ponging all over the place.

I got some old playboys if you want to. I'll take them. Yeah, like, I love, yeah. That's why I kind of like reading the articles too these days and seeing what still lands and what doesn't and what's an absolute fucking mess. or, and like, just like there's some that, like, the art or that the ads are, I'm like, so interesting looking at old marketing

the cool thing about like old ads and like old magazines and stuff like that. It's like whether or not it's it's cool now or impactful now is not as relevant to me as the fact that it was. It for sure was. Like this is the way when you look at like old magazines and you see the illustrations in there like man people had like style back then and like this was the thing. There was no AI. There was no

And so if it was cooled in, it could probably have impact now, especially with like some time that's passed.

Things tend to cycle back through, right? They're like trends. Yeah, I do want to touch on AI too. Like, I feel like a little smirk coming on even just by asking you about this.

Jon McKenzie (31:27.15)
So here's my thoughts. I laughed about it when you were texting me about it because on Instagram, all I see is artists raising cane about, mean, there's dudes that I know that are beside themselves over this whole AI thing. And they're like, fuck, not only will I never ever use it, but you mustn't. Nobody can, and that's just not gonna happen. Now, definitely don't think,

because that's not gonna happen, we should all just pile on. I don't think that's a good way to live life either. But here's my thought on it is, so much of what I do is commissioned artwork. And like back when I was tattooing, people would bring in reference material. They used to always clown on like Pinterest. Pinterest was like starting to like pop off about the time that I was leaving. So people would bring printouts from Pinterest, AI.

I still get that shit to this day. You know, I started a mural company a couple of years ago and the idea behind that was like to take my face out of it and just have a contracted company that, know, you didn't have to know who I was. You just needed a mural company to come out and hook your business up with whatever. And so those clients will bring me AI material often, you know.

to help get the juices going or...

Yeah, and it's not every client, but it's a certain type of person. They want to do their own research. They want to produce their own reference material. They want to get it how they want it and then bring it to somebody who can produce it.

Kristin (33:07.938)
I think that so using it as more as like a tool or an assistant versus like the whole thing. Cause I mean, how, mean,

I don't, I mean, I don't care as much. You know, I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to leave my impact on somebody's personal business, client facing mural that they hired me to do. That's my job. It's not my job. So that's how I feel about it. Like my job as a contracted artist is to give the customer what they want. And if what they want is AI,

fine, I don't care. It typically has to be gone through, especially if it's anatomy and edited, because AI is still wonky in that regard. Now, would I use it for my own works? Probably not. I just think for me, that's like kind of a slippery slope. It's like, well, I can use it to kind of dress up this area, and I have, and commission pieces in particular.

It's so, this is what I recognized about it. It's so easy to start plugging in prompts to help you out with this aspect or that aspect. And the next thing you know, you've constructed your whole piece with it. And then what are we really doing here?

at that point. Yeah, for sure. it like, I mean, the expression of it. Yeah, I use it sometimes for like podcast descriptions or question ideas or something.

Jon McKenzie (34:39.383)
Yeah, we were talking about that in the text too, like Opus and editing stuff. know, I edited it real last night.

And I was thinking about it, especially, you know, as I was doing it, especially because we had just talked about it. And I was like, I want to see how long this will take me. Cause a lot of times I just zone out, especially if it's like at nighttime and I'm in bed, just making it. And it took me, I don't know, maybe an hour and 20 minutes to like chop up this, take all these videos that I had and make a cool reel out of it. And so I think it has incredible

potential to help us out, make our lives easier.

I mean Opus

Will it remain that way? I don't know. I mean, that's what like Sam Altman and at all, you know, all these characters that are in this AI world, that's the line they're feeding us is this is meant to relieve everyone. Yeah, well, they're not saying this outwardly, which is, this is the irony to me. It's like what they're describing is really like, hey,

Kristin (35:42.103)
some pressure.

Jon McKenzie (35:51.308)
You know, if you're a conservative, like a socialist hellscape where nobody's working and AI is doing all our jobs for us and we're just kind of like kicked back getting like weighted on by AI butlers and nobody.

Yeah, I heard increasing the expectation of output, maybe. Because if you can plug some things into AI or you're not keeping up with the Joneses as far as like what you can outsource to AI, then you know, like the expectation of work output. both could exist.

It seems very to me right now, like I think any loss of job is not good. You know, in 20 years from now, let's talk about like the editing thing specifically. You know, in 20 years, Hollywood's probably gonna be no more cinema editors. You know, it'll all be done through AI. And that means little.

to Kristen or John, cause you're a writer and I'm a visual artist, but to people that work in film, know, Lord knows how many people are in that role. And so we don't hear about the fallout from that, but when will it come in touch what you do for a living or what I do for a living? I don't think ever. think, I think like art will always need to have that human vehicle behind it to be received well.

Kristin (37:20.462)
Yeah, the heart. I think it's the heart behind the art a lot of it. For me.

you know, mortgage underwriting, does that need to be done by a human? And if not, like what happens to all the people that went to school to be loan officers or whatever? Are they all fucked?

Yeah. Are brought to like a choice where.

Where do go? mean, that's a lot of people transitioning out of like their career. And that's a lot of people scrambling to find something else.

Yeah, I guess it depends on how they choose to look at it. Like does it provide them the opportunity to go after the art or whatever or whatever other job that they may have that may not been as quote safe whenever they set out or is it like that, oh shit, which got to find something else that maybe I don't like as much.

Jon McKenzie (38:10.54)
And I love that perspective and I don't think that way, you know? so like,

I'm usually like, what's the silver lining?

So we were, you and I were at a concert recently with like a mutual friend, right? And like, there were a couple times during that concert where you would lean over and you would say XYZ about the band, right? And I remember all two or three times you would say like, oh, I didn't know these guys were Christian. And I said,

Well, they're probably not, right?

Jon McKenzie (38:51.95)
Like it's some hustle, right? Because like, grip, it just seems like we're in like grifter nation right now. Like everybody's like pulling one over, you know, all our politicians are like, you know, and it seems like that's what's happening in like the corporatocracy of America. Everybody's in this cash grab.

What's hot right now? What do need?

Like there's a pending doom coming. And so it's just like, how do I make my billions of dollars and like, fuck the environment or whatever, this or that. That's how I can look at it sometimes. And so I walked away from that concert thinking, you know, you have a really good outlook on life and you kind of have to be exposed. You have to be exposed to that sometimes or else, you know, you can venture.

into that like dead end road that is pessimism. And I think now it's probably more important than ever to be, to have a sense of optimism. And I walked away from that concert thinking like, wow, Kristin has really optimistic outlook on, in this small window that we were exposed to. But it was so different from my current worldview.

And I carried it into that concert. I'm watching this guy talk about like God and Christianity or whatever his like soup du jour was, but, I'm like, you know,

Kristin (40:16.546)
Yeah, he's talking about having a, that they weren't a Christian band, but they were a band of Christians. And it just hit for me that morning, or that evening, because that morning I'd asked for a sign. Cause I'm like, fuck, I'm like, do I keep doing the podcast or I change its name? Like, do I, you know, because of like censorship or, but I love it. I love the topics. Like, do I keep at it? Like, I was like, fuck.

You know what I'm like? It's more of like a crying, like defeated, like I'm about to throw in the towel, like you gotta show me something whether I need to like switch gears or keep on getting up along. then hearing their story felt like a sign. And then like a couple of other things have come through since then, like a friend reaching out or someone that's been on, there's like, you lead from a compassionate and curious place. I keep at it. So I'm like.

Okay, I hear you. And my views have totally shifted them from when I grew up around to now. But yeah, it was just like very much like that concert moved me so much and then so many.

Man, was a bad ass concert and you know, that guy makes incredible music and his band is all into it. They all seem like they want to be there. And they all seem like it was like from the heart. So that's going to have impact, you know? And of course, like being from Texas, I've grown up and been exposed to both sides of the aisle, Christian, you know, the Christian belief and then, you know, more

agnostic or atheistic or whatever. so, but yeah.

Jon McKenzie (41:55.916)
You know, when I think about my own like creative career, I feel like in so many ways, I made it really, really difficult, hard on myself to go do something else. Especially like once I started like tattooing myself up in, in when I did that for a living, you know, I kind of came out of that going like, well, I look a certain way. I'm not going to be able to like go do this or go do that.

Yeah.

And you mentioned earlier that it was like safety related potentially. Like do you think, is that what you think?

Well, when I think about like safety, mean, just being able to keep your bills paid for the perspective future, you know.

Like you said something about face tattooing as a way to keep safe or like put on an oz-

Jon McKenzie (42:41.806)
Yeah, you know, like I think that I thought that the world was like a wildly unpredictable, spooky place, even as a little kid.

Jon McKenzie (42:55.0)
But I don't know, I just had that little dog in me even as a child where I was like, I'm gonna do, it's weird. It's like, I wanted to do my own thing, but I also felt.

like it was definitely not the pragmatic route. the older I got, the more I like realized that. I saw that like back when I was tattooing. And it's not this way for so many people. But for me, I felt like when I was tattooing, I was looking around at like some of these older cats and you know, they didn't always seem like they wanted to be there. They seemed like they were in pain, know, the back hurt, the wrist hurt. And they're like,

grinding out these tattoos on some drunk coed or whatever. And it's like, damn dude, this how it's gonna look for me? So I've just kind of like frog hopped up to where I am now. And like, as more more time passes, I hope that you become, that I become better at executing my

my art, my vision, even if I don't always know what that is.

Yeah, that kind of brings me to my next question. It's like, what is your vision? Or if you are like what you see it as today doesn't have to be like clearly because it's so malleable, right? It can shift as we evolve and change.

Jon McKenzie (44:25.078)
Yeah. yeah, definitely can. I mean, you could have an art show, yearly and one, you know, each one could be as different from the last as the one coming up. So, but I think as a, as a man, you carry, you develop one and carry these like values through life and values are really what makes us who we are, like our belief system and what we represent, what we

try to adhere to is our true north. That's like the place that we always go back to. So when I think about making original works, it's how are my values reflected in the environment around me and am I seeing the values that are important to me reflected in the world around me? And if not, that might be a problem for me. And so then your art becomes more about saying like,

this is a thing that's going on and I don't think it's right. This is like what I believe in. At least for me, my vision of the type of art that I wanna produce over 2026 would be that.

Yeah, what can you, what's like a, say your number one or number two value? you, like for me, courage comes up and I'm like.

Courage is a good one. Yeah. I probably wouldn't like, I'm not like reflex to think about that, but I do think that that's important. Or at least like, you know, however you want to like, whatever synonymous word you want to pick, stamina, resilience. They're all like kind of in the same bag, but you know,

Kristin (46:03.49)
Mm-hmm.

Jon McKenzie (46:13.944)
I think that this is like part of the human condition for us. We, we worry about what other people are doing a lot of times and that in and of itself probably isn't too problematic, but when you start legislating around that and,

Start trying to like control what this population or this group or this minority population is doing. That's not good. You know, that's not a good thing. think a lot of people want, they like this idea of sameness in America where everybody is kind of like doing the same thing. We all look the same way, but that's not, that's not cool. You know, that's like when you atrophy and die as a.

population of people is when you don't have variety or opposition to your belief systems. I sit here saying like, I'm seeing a lot of things that I don't like, but to an extent we need that. I don't mean like I need to snuff that out and silence that either.

Yeah, think, yeah, it provides the contrast. And for me, it's like the different flavors of, I kind of like to think we're all gods experiencing ourselves in one another. And like, how do we get to experience different expressions of ourselves if there's not contrasting views, colors, hues, all that. We've got to wrap up. Is there anything else that you want to share? Like how to connect with you, any lasting words or what you want to leave?

I mean, anybody could find me on Instagram at John McKenzie. It's just J-O-N-O-H-M-C-K-E-N-Z-I-E. And yeah, you know, if you wanted to like, I don't know, if you watch this and you were interested in my art, my story, you could follow me there. I'm going to try to get better about like social media and bringing.

Jon McKenzie (48:17.614)
people that follow me like into my world as like, you know, I'm kind of like gag at the idea of being like a creator when they talk about like a creator or like influencer. like don't, I'm not like not into that. Yeah, but I, I feel like it's like necessary to do that now. So if you wanted to follow along, like that's what you can anticipate over

Inspire!

Jon McKenzie (48:46.19)
2026 is original works and kind of a peek behind the curtain as it were of like what, what it looks like to be a working artist.

I'm like, I want to see your original works. And there's a part of me that's like, but I also want to commission you to do something. And probably not Boudreaux, but. Maybe. Yeah.

Dude, I might be getting a French Bulldog. My buddy breeds them. Yeah, and he offered me one for free.

Oh yes, you tell me that. Boudreaux needs a little buddy and we can take him on playdates. It's worth it. Fuck her out. He's little shithead, but he's a shithead sometimes. Oh, well.

I guess

Jon McKenzie (49:21.758)
See

I don't know nothing about them. I just know that they're expensive, you know, and somebody like offered me one. I'm like, well, should I like take him up on his offer? I've never wanted a French bulldog before, but we'll see.

As far as health,

Kristin (49:41.986)
All right, well I hope you get it. Thank you, was fun. Bye.