Sex, Drugs, & Soul

What Can Our Fantasies Tell Us? | Justin Gottlieb on Tantra, Fantasies, & Desires

• Kristin Birdwell • Season 4 • Episode 5

Share episode

Some of my favorite quotes from this episode: "Where there's horniness, there's healing..."  & "Vulnerability is the gateway to intimacy."

Justin Gottlieb, a sexual freedom coach and tantric facilitator, joins this week for a deep dive into fantasies, tantra, and sexual liberation. 

We explore...

  • What is Tantra, really? Justin’s take, why it’s not just about sex, and how to apply to everyday life
  • Healing through desire: How fantasies can open deeper pathways of self-understanding & unlock deeper intimacy, connection, and healing
  • The role of vulnerability and why it deepens connection
  • Why fantasies aren't random, what they may reveal, & what is possible by exploring them
  • The difference between keeping fantasies in the mind vs. exploring them in reality
  • How to talk about fantasies with your partner without blame or shame
  • Why all events are emotionally neutral, until we assign meaning
  • Why jealousy is an invitation instead of an enemy & embracing the full spectrum of emotions 
  • The truth about taboo fantasies
  • Creating a safe space for exploration & fantasy fulfillment
  • Justin’s formula for a fully-lived life: Healing → Exploration → Mastery

Whether you're tantra-curious, exploring your edges, or simply love honest conversations about desire, this episode will leave you inspired, informed, and maybe a little turned on. 😉

Timestamps
02:30 — Justin’s journey: From finance to tantra facilitation
08:40 — Family, acceptance, & stepping onto a new path
10:20 — Fantasies 101: “Where there’s horniness, there’s healing”
12:00 — Curiosity, vulnerability, & sharing fantasies with partners 
15:50 — Neutrality & the stories we attach to events
18:00 — Taboo fantasies, porn trends, & cultural shame
22:30 — Releasing shame and finding safe spaces to share
24:45 — Reigniting relationships through communication & fantasies
26:10 — Navigating jealousy consciously
30:00 — Living truth, leaving others better, & hard conversations
36:30 — Tantra retreats, partnership, & expansion
41:20 — Introducing tantra & fantasies to your partner
45:36 — Awakening, truth, and not settling in relationships
47:22 — Healing → Exploration → Mastery
51:08 — Staying together for the kids? Honest talk.
52:35 — What’s turning Justin on in life right now

Connect with Justin Gottlieb:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tantralovecoach/
Website: https://www.tantralovecoach.com/
Events & Tantra Love Retreat: https://www.tantralovecoach.com/events/
https://www.talktantratome.com/events

Connect with Kristin:
Website
Instagram
YouTube

Kristin's Best-Selling Book:
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sex, Drugs, & Soul on Amazon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify Audiobook Link⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Subscribe to the Podcast:
YouTube
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

For 10% off pleasure goodies at WAANDS, use code SEXDRUGSSOUL.

Kristin (00:00.142)
Welcome back to another episode of Sex, Drugs, and Soul. Today I have on Justin Gottlieb. He is a sexual freedom coach, the Tantra Love Coach on Instagram, and a transformational guide. I thought I saw that somewhere too. I'm excited to dive into this with you today. I kind of have some notes, but I'm also like, okay, if we just throw it all to the wind and just kind of ping pong back and forth. But I would love to get your definition to start off. Or welcome.

Thank you. for

I'm like, let's just dive in. Go for it. Of what Tantra is even, because I get asked this to this day and sometimes I'm like, it's this and it's this and it's this and it's all this.

Yeah, I think if you just said it's self-acceptance and love, that would work well. Tantra has many, definitions, just the fact that it's a Sanskrit word and a lot of Sanskrit words have multiple things going on within it. like, it can mean source, can mean weaving, it can mean protection, it can mean all these different things when you go back. So what I teach more Neo-Tantra, so I like to kind of distill things down to today's day.

and create more modern definitions. And I found when I went to many different Tantra workshops early on, I walked away going from each one with a different definition. And it is a big broad term. It's an umbrella term because Tantra can include breath work and energy work and yoga and meditation. so you could go to one of these things like this is Tantra yoga. And then all of a sudden you're in a red Tantra or a more sexual Tantra. And it's like, well, how is this the same?

Justin Gottlieb (01:33.698)
And it's not, it's just about life. It's about accepting the human experience. It's about owning your emotions, owning your sexuality, owning your body and being able to move through this life of like, it's a gift to be here. How can I use my five senses to enjoy this life? maybe I'm just a spirit and maybe this is a bonus world I got to go to and incarnated into this body. So what do I get to use it for? How do I get to explore this? And a lot of times, unfortunately, it starts with

having to rid ourselves of the trauma, the indoctrination, the conditioning, and all the things that this world tends to heap upon us. So to me, if you could accept yourself fully as this human experience, you can be loving, receive love, be present, be connected. That's tantra, and it's very simple. I think people really mess it up when they try to be like, all right, well, I need to do all these things to be tantric. I need to get to this level. And it's really not about that. It's just about being a human.

Yeah, I felt like it was a homecoming to myself. I'm like, wait, there's a path that I can have my desires, my humanness and embrace that. I kind of felt like my desires had to live over here if I wanted to be in the spiritual pathway. But now it just felt like, yes, it's a homecoming of presence and intentionality, I guess. I love what you said too about being a gift and how am going to use that.

How did you stumble upon it or come into being a Tantric facilitator or?

Yeah, I started off life like any, I guess, regular kind of corporate dude. I went to college, I moved to Manhattan, I got a job in finance and I kind of was living that life. And it wasn't until I moved to Miami, no less, in 2014, where I found a transformational training. It was kind of like a LifeSpring or Tony Robbins kind of training. And it just opened my eyes because it was very much a practical training that just showed me how I was showing up in my life. It showed me how to break through the things that were

Justin Gottlieb (03:34.934)
holding me back and how to bring that all into my life and really live a meaningful and purposeful life. So when that happened, it also had a lot of spiritual undertones in the teachings and all of a sudden going from someone who's like very corporate and kind of like, yeah, I don't know about this spiritual stuff and energy and all that, it's kind of seems like BS to me.

I started to be like, huh, maybe there's something to this. And then next thing I know, I'm doing breath work and I'm crying and my hands are tightening up and I'm like, my God, what's going on? It feels like I'm on drugs and why am I crying? And I was not, I was nothing, I was just breathing. And that started to make me crack a little more and a little more and all the hardening of like being a man and being corporate and having to goal, goal, goal oriented started to fade. And then it was like, well, what are my gifts? What do I really enjoy in this world? like,

I was always researching sexuality. was always trying to be a better lover, even from like a teenage years. And I also really enjoyed giving. Like I enjoyed having, you know, a woman over and just saying, here's my body, like have fun. You wanna give me pleasure? Great. Like I'm not used to this. Usually the guy's just taking from me, taking, taking. And it was a really cool awakening for me. And then I'm like, well, if I'm gonna quit the corporate world, which was pretty much my plan, and I wanna get into more coaching and all of that,

do I really just wanna be a regular coach? And the answer was no, because I'm like, I did learn so much about the body and how important it is that we address the mind, the body and the spirit if we really wanna live a full life. So, you you're mixing the sexuality with spirituality and I'm like, okay, Tantra. And then I had to go through a whole process of being like, can I actually do that? Can I be that guy? Like, am I gonna put myself out there like that? Like no one in my family and really in my world back then was spiritual, let alone.

understanding of like sex work and that kind of thing. And it took me a while to even like say that I was doing sex work. So that kind of opened up all this challenges as well as opportunities. And then one day I just said, okay, I'm gonna quit my job and I'm gonna travel the world for a year. I'm gonna do my tantra trainings and learn from as many different people as I can. I was very adamant about not just following someone else's path or one school. And I wanted to make it my own. And then

Justin Gottlieb (05:45.398)
I was fortunate enough to have experience now in the spiritual world, in the corporate world and be able to say, what's missing here is there's no really grounded, very clear and concise tantra trainings where also it might be a little more high end. And I kind of started to fill that gap there. And that really allowed me to be successful in that world and reach a new audience of people that maybe weren't attracted to the super kind of spiritual and esoteric side of things.

I was about to say you can speak to a point of relatability with someone versus, know, instead of it's like being all in the woo, you know, it's like, okay, how do, but can you meet me in my humanness? Can you understand the path that I walked because you walked it yourself? Was your family and friends receptive or was that something that you had to kind of navigate as you like came out of like the Tantric kind of sex work closet or?

I think like the people in my family know what they need to know. So it's not like, know, certain people don't know every extent in the details. I think that I was fortunate enough to have a family who's pretty much their motto was as long as you're happy, I'm happy. And also I was very fortunate enough to not have any like sexual shame heaped upon me or any indoctrination. My family was kind of chill and more just like not religious, really just like, you know, I think I got the push more so to be like,

Yeah.

Justin Gottlieb (07:08.322)
the corporate world and like get the good job and make a lot of money and the family and the kids and that was just what they knew and nothing wrong with that but I had to really veer off course and I'm still to this day I think the only one in my family that's kind of more in the spiritual entrepreneurial and that side of things and you know it's all perfect and I'm very happy and I think everyone in my family is very happy for me and I feel very fortunate because of course I work with a lot of people who you know have a lot of issues with family and trauma and you know not being understood and I think

The first step in getting out of that is really owning who you are and being really confident in who you are and being able to communicate that appropriately to people. My family did think I was in a cult when I first started the transformational training work, because the next thing I know I'm like, my God, I'm so empowered, this is amazing, you guys gotta join, you gotta join. And I'm like, I sounded like I was in a cult, but it was because I was so amazed by how this woke me up in my life. then I learned the lesson that you can't really force that upon people, you can't.

Tell them that like this is gonna change your life because they're like, well, I like my life. Why do I want to change it?

I know sometimes I'm like, drink this. It's I know I think back to myself too, I'm like, yeah, there is like an, even though I felt probably had like a projection of like rejection that might've come from like some of my, even my mom to this day, she was like, a Tantra client, what is that exactly? I was like, ask what you really want to know about. But I think that I had to get to a point of like ownership and acceptance.

the kool-aid was delicious

Kristin (08:40.386)
for myself, was, but I was projecting on them, are they gonna still, you know, like love, accept me, all that stuff. But they're always like, you're kind of like the weird hippie one. We kind of expect you to go on a different path. So I think it's courageous too, that you're doing a path that's not necessarily touted and like culture, like that we're told to walk down. I'm super curious. I know you, like just before we came on here, you said you're not an expert in this.

but I had an awesome workshop where I watched the recording of you doing a workshop on fantasies and pleasure priestess with Leola. And so I'd love to explore some of the fantasy questions that I have too.

Yeah, please. I'll just say that I think there's not enough focus on like fantasies and sexual liberation and like, what do you do once you've found your healing and safety in this world? Like, where do I go to really explore my edges? And that's an area that I like to work with my clients in and there's really not a lot of outlets for it.

Yeah, I would love to kind of get what so what can our fantasies tell us or what can they reveal to us like some about hidden desires or something deeper?

Yeah, I don't think any fantasy is random. There's no coincidence that that's your fantasy, right? And I always like to say where there's horniness, there's healing. So what that means really is like, well, once you accept your horniness, your sexuality, your fantasies, now you can start to work with it, right? Because a lot of us just repress our fantasies. We repress all parts of our sexuality. And then it's like, well, now you to pretend it's not there or you're, I don't know, it's coming out in weird ways.

Justin Gottlieb (10:20.054)
It usually will come out somehow, but if you own it and you really notice it and you go, okay, so like, where did this come from? Is there a way that I can access this in a more healthy way? Because a lot of times our fantasies are coming out and they become obsessions or addictions or, you know, something we do on a screen, masturbating, and it becomes this like really like not good feeling thing when it doesn't have to be. And not every fantasy has to be acted out, right? So there's plenty of fantasies that you couldn't or wouldn't act out in the real world.

But if you reject that aspect of you, it's gonna rear its ugly head in some way. So to me, the most important part is just to really acknowledge like, hey, this is a fantasy of mine. And like, you know, the way to do that is sometimes to look at, all right, if you look at porn, like what are the categories on Pornhub that I'm looking at? Why am I looking at those? like, or I like to ask people like, what is it that you think of if you were like not able to come, but you're trying to come?

And usually people have that one thing or category that they go to that really turns them on. So people generally know their fantasies. They know what they are, they just don't usually talk about it.

Yeah, I mean, I've been asked it before and I'm like, ooh, Dora, I'm like, which level do you want to go to? Exactly. you want to go to like surface level or like after a tequila where I feel a little more comfortable opening up or saying what this one is? It sounds like getting curious with the fantasies.

Getting curious, but to your point, like the deeper you go, the more vulnerable it is. People talk about vulnerability and it's like, it's not just talking about the pain and hurt in your life. It's also being like, can I be vulnerable enough to share with my partner that I have this really kinky fantasy that might really weird them out and they might run? And then what I found is that when you do that, you actually get closer, right? Vulnerability is the gateway to intimacy. So if you're being vulnerable, be vulnerable in all areas, including your sexuality.

Justin Gottlieb (12:06.602)
And most of the time I work with couples and I do a fantasies exercise with them where they can explore and well, they can share their fantasies in a safe way and potentially even explore them. And a lot of times they've never told their partner this fantasy and sometimes the partner is the same one. And for years they've been living together and just never told each other that they had this fantasy. So to me, it's just this, yeah, it's this kind of repressed area that we can really open up. And once we open it up, not only do we feel better about ourselves, not only is there healing available,

But there's also the opportunity to maybe explore this with your partner or with others. And it leads to a lot of liberation and freedom and better communication and empowerment. So it's not just some little silly thing about pleasure. It's about so much more. if you can really go deep into it, and there is again, where there's horniness, there's healing, there's usually healing to it, right? Like if you think back to like your teenage years or something, there may be a link to this, or maybe you got cheated on and now you have some kind of fantasy around being cheated on or cuckolding or whatever.

And these things happen for good reason. And if you just hold it as a dirty little secret, you're never gonna heal from it. You're never gonna create empowerment from that fantasy.

love that. How do you recommend or like how do you set the container for like safetyness or say for a couple, say a couple comes in, like what would you start with or what would you suggest to a couple that wants to open the door to fantasies or more expression of the.

Yeah, first I do not recommend doing this on your own. You should do this with me and I'll give you the secret to it. It's nothing crazy, but the fact is, is first of all, you both have to agree that you want to hear these fantasies. You you want to hear your partner's fantasies and you're not going to take it personal, right? So if I have a partner and I'm like, I would have a threesome with two women and she's like, I knew it, it goes crazy on it. Then, you know, that's not going to make me want to share anything with her anymore. So what I do is I sit them both down.

Justin Gottlieb (13:54.432)
and I have them agree that all they're gonna do is once they hear their partner's fantasy, if it triggers them or something's coming up in them, they just raise their hand and we do some breathing. And then we take some separation between them saying what the fantasy is and then their partner being able to explore and share what came up in them around that fantasy. And then since I'm there with them, I can help work them through it and let them see that, okay, this is your own stuff that's coming up around it. Their fantasy's neutral.

I about to say, like I watched something of yours earlier and I loved it and I'm glad it's kind of coming in, the neutral piece, of how everything is neutral and it's like how whatever charge or perspective that we're bringing to it. Love that. If you want to.

All events in this life are neutral. They're neutral until we charge them positive or negative. So if my partner says that she wants to have gangbang, that's a neutral thing. That's whatever. There's nothing wrong with that and that's fine. Now if I charge that as an, my God, I'm not enough and she wants all these other men and my God, what do they look like? What do they have that I don't have? Now I'm charging that as a negative experience and then I might resent her and have all these issues.

If I just go like, wow, how amazing that my partner is willing to share this and like, maybe I could find like hotness in that and exploration and like, how could I have, how could I give this gift to my partner and allow her to fulfill her fantasy? Why wouldn't I want her to have that? Now I've charged it as a positive experience and look, it's the exact same event, right? The event is this is what my partner wants and I could be negative or it could be positive and that's how you know it's neutral.

Yeah, I love that piece. Cause I feel like we're always bringing in like everything through our belief window or perspectives. it's a good reminder. It was a good reminder for me, like when I watched that other episode of yours, because I was like in traffic, I was like, okay, I can either be really disgruntled on this drive or I can put on this new song that I'm jamming out on repeat and like, just, you know, have that experience.

Justin Gottlieb (15:51.598)
Traffic's a great example because like you could literally use that time to call your grandma or someone you haven't spoken to in a while and be like, wow, like what a great opportunity I just had. Or you could be slamming on your horn or doing crazy stuff that they do in Miami, getting out of the car. So, you know, that's your life. Exactly. And I'm like, you know, we're making up stories all day long. We are story making machines as human beings. And the question is, is are we making up stories that serve us or making up stories that really enslave us?

packing.

Kristin (16:21.228)
Yeah, we could ask ourselves that question. Okay, so I'm curious too, like, is there any fantasies that you've seen people bring in that had like a big, like, transformation or deeper awareness gained or that it's transpired in their lives kind of from the bedroom and it's tripped, trickled outward to like their day-to-day life or?

I mean, doesn't, it's not even fantasy specific, but I could say that like, there's a lot of fantasies that you might be surprised are pretty common. Like there's a lot of fantasies where men want to see their woman with another man in a safe way. And I think there's some, there's a lot of things that are really hot about that that could be really healing about that. And I do find that like those men really, really care about their partner, unless it's their fantasy and they really get off on it and she doesn't really care for it.

Right, so now then it becomes something else. So that's an interesting one that comes through a lot. I think the common ones are like multiple people and all that. And when people tell me that I'm like, okay, that's great. And then I'm always wondering like, what's the next level? What are the other ones? know, because that's like a very easy one just to say.

It's probably the most common. It's more accepted.

Exactly, so what I really wanna know from people is what is your most taboo fantasy? And some of them are illegal, right, if you were to actually act them out. But like we need to accept that. We need to accept that there are people that wanna have daddy, daughter, little sexy things in role plays. They wanna have the doctor patient role play. They wanna have these things and they're maybe even obsessing over it and partly why they're obsessing over it because it's so taboo to share that with anyone. Yet I do find that when people do.

Justin Gottlieb (18:00.802)
There's a lot of people that also have it and they're finally like, thank God. Like I've been holding this secret my whole life. you know, one of my friends has taught me about this book talk thing, which is, guess all these girls are reading these really smutty books and I had no idea and I'm like, what are they about? And they're like, they're all about like incest and like, you know, age play and all this stuff. I'm like, wait a second, this is like mainstream now. And everyone he's, she's like, yeah, girls are reading these. She's like, I've read a hundred of them. And I'm like, a hundred of these books. And I'm like, this is what people are reading. And the reason they're reading it and the reason that like,

Justin Gottlieb (18:30.754)
when you look at Pornhub, what are the most common categories? It's like, I think I looked at the research, I think it was hentai was number one. that's like cartoonish porn with tentacles, but there's also a lot of like incestual, it's basically, I think the reason it's cartoonish is because the themes that they use, they can never actually really show, you know, with human beings in a sense. So it's really taboo, right? The next ones are usually like incestual, like, you know.

What is that?

Justin Gottlieb (18:56.926)
stepmom and stepdad and yeah those are really big so there's the incestual category there's a lot of teen stuff you know age play that so it's like we're behind the computer screen where the phone we're showing truthfully this is what the data shows that we're really kinky taboo people but then when it all comes out and we have to actually share it we're just like i want to three some yeah right let's see your browser history

Do you think that it's because it's so powerful that, you know what I mean? Like as far as like, why does it stay taboo?

Because there's so much shame and stigma in this world that like literally if you tell someone you're into age play, they're like, you're a pedophile and you could literally get canceled and your whole life's ruined. If you say that you love to dom people and you like, you know, consensual non-consent, like it's like there's someone might just go, like maybe he's a rapist. You know, there's like literally this stigma where, so it's like, why would I want to bring that out into the world and to the public, right? Or what about this? You're a guy and you want to explore with another guy, but you're hetero. You're totally, you consider yourself straight.

you consider yourself only wanting to be with a woman and generally only want to play with women, but like maybe you're a little curious, maybe there's a little kink to it. Why are you gonna bring that out into the real world where people will just go, well you're gay or you're bi or whatever and they wanna label you. So it's honestly the outside world and all of the crap that we have to listen to that is what stops people from sharing these kinds of things and it causes a lot of problems. Like I think if people were able to share these things,

you could find outlets that are healthy to explore this stuff and then maybe you don't go on and have it come out in unhealthy ways. So it's a really edgy topic, but in the end, I think if we were able to give space for people to share this stuff and not feel so, it's kind of like STIs, right? Like it's become a lot less stigmatized to kind of have those conversations. We teach that at my retreat and we're talking about

Justin Gottlieb (20:51.022)
Like it's not a big deal. Like it's okay to share these things where it used to be like, oh my God, you're disgusting. And people would say stuff like that. And the movies and the media would be like, oh, you have herpes. And it was like a joke. And people would feel so bad. They'd go, well, I'm not gonna speak up about that. So now I think that's clearly happening with fantasies and people just sharing their sexual truths in general. So yeah, it's a tough world to come out and say that. And that's why I'm giving space to people to do that in a safe way with me, with me and their partner.

I facilitate different workshops and things around that just so people can, you know, as comfortably as they feel, step into that role. You know, in one of my workshops, I have different kind of sides of fantasy. So let's just say an easy one would be like the Dom and the Sub. And we talk about it all and then it's like, okay, if you feel like you're a Dom and you want to own it, go stand in the Dom side. And if you feel like you're a Sub, go stand in the Sub side. And just standing there and being seen with other people who are also on that side and then other people that are in the other polarity there,

is like a big step for people. But to own that is really, again, that's the first step. If you can't own it, you're not gonna be able to work on it, you're not gonna be able to explore it. So it is a really important aspect of our sexual liberation journey.

Yeah, I'm like, yeah, how do we start releasing some of the shame? I know I had a guy come to me and he had this fantasy around trans women and he was like, but does that make me gay? I'm like, I can't answer that for you. It is okay if you are, but I can't answer that question for you. But I'm like, how do we start to release some of the shame or I mean, going to those workshops and stuff, but if someone's not quite that.

ready to go to a workshop or something like that. What do you?

Justin Gottlieb (22:34.904)
I think you gotta get people around you that are not gonna like label you or stigmatize you for whatever, you know? There's certain people in my life that I definitely feel comfortable sharing different fantasies and things about and like they do the same with me and I'm like, wow, they're like, they're in my inner circle of fantasies, right? I don't need to go share my fantasies with everyone in the world, right? And partly because like...

they don't have the same understanding and like it could be taken out of context. So like, why would I want to take that risk? ideally if everyone started learning about this stuff and everyone started being able to communicate about it and it wasn't like this like, ha ha ha, like you're gay, you're this, you're whatever, then I think everyone would be more comfortable. And I think the ones that are pointing fingers, they're just uneducated about it. And they're the ones who probably have the deepest seated, know, fantasies that they don't share with anybody.

And it's tough and like you have to do the healing work and like, you know, most people's fantasies are super buried. And if you're not on that kind of at least personal development journey or maybe even further along on the sexual development journey, then you're gonna be, yeah, you're gonna get stuck in this one area. And I think it's an important area. And I think there's a lot of relationships that would also be saved if there was more talking about fantasies and like people ask how do you spice up relationships and all that.

Well, first you gotta make time for sex, first of all. And then secondly, what do you do in that time? There's a lot of different ways that I help couples reignite that fire. One of them is just simply like, take 15 minutes of just giving to your partner and you receive. And then you switch. We're too easily just transacting and like, okay, you're doing this to me, but then I have to do this to you and whatever. We don't actually get to take the time to be like.

What do I really like? And if I'm just receiving for 15 minutes and I could communicate and explore and tell this person, this is my pleasure map and this is what I like, you could learn a lot. And now every time you do that, you're learning more about your partner and now your sex is gonna exponentially be better. Your pleasure is gonna be exponentially better. So that's one way to do that. But then also like, what if you wanna role play? What if you wanna get into your fantasies? What if you wanna read some of these like kinky books and like talk to each other about that?

Justin Gottlieb (24:45.262)
A lot of people want to know about their partner's past or like, tell me a sexy story of something you did with somebody else and whatever. like, but then sometimes they'll be met with like, what, like I'm not good enough just the way I am. Like we need to go like there or like why, you know, you're just going to get jealous and they yell at me for this, you know. So there's a lot of different reasons why people just don't step into that. So it really starts with trust and communication. And in most cases you do want someone like me to help guide the experience. Cause like it can get edgy. can create.

know, issues and jealousy and all those things if you're not doing it right and at the right pace.

Yeah, it sounds like prioritizing it, know, prioritizing the relationship. I heard someone say the other day, they're like, scheduling sex or that intentional time is sexy. It's like, cause we, what else? We put everything on our calendars these days, so why not put our partner and dedicate some time to that? You mentioned jealousy. Yeah, I'm curious about that, like how to navigate for someone if jealousy is coming up and.

Yeah, I mean, for the record, I get jealous. don't think there's like, yeah, there's no way that you just like. don't You don't evolve to a point where you don't get jealous. this is part of my definition of tantra around acceptance is accepting all emotions of this human experience. So if you only accept the good emotions like happiness and joy and all these other things, but you repress the rest, you're gonna turn into a monster. It's gonna happen, right? So we need to accept.

He is rational.

Justin Gottlieb (26:13.932)
our sadness, we need to accept our anger, we need to accept jealousy as this thing that's part of this experience. And once we accept it, we can work with it. If we don't accept it or we don't acknowledge it, then that's when we punch a wall. That's when we go do something that ruins our relationship. So to be able to accept this emotion, accept jealousy, then we can like take a breath when we're feeling it. We know what it is like, right? And sometimes it feels like your whole world is ending.

And in reality, it's very rarely is it, right? Like your partner's going to talk to some guy and you can see she's being a little flirty and it's like, okay, all right, I have a great relationship with my partner. She loves me. I've been a great person for her. Like even if she was interested in this guy, I don't think she would just like go leave me right now. And then, know, all these things can go through and you can have a conscious conversation with yourself and also realize again, you're making up a story. So if you're going to make up a story, make up one that works for you. And then also like,

don't let it be this like hidden thing. You can speak to your partner and to say, hey, you I just want to let you know, I like got a little jealous. It was interesting. I felt a little jealousy come up when you're talking to that guy. And she might be like, oh my God, like, that's so cute. Like, thank you for telling me like, why, why do you think that is? Like, you know, just so you know, I would never like do anything outside of the agreements of our relationship. There's reassurance available. There's so many different ways that we can work with that. And it also could be like, wow, because of that, I noticed I have this insecurity or I noticed that this touched on something that happened when I was a teenager.

Now you can really talk about it and man, that really brings relationships closer. So the opportunity to make a neutral experience or event into something positive is there or you could totally destroy your relationship and your partner could be like, you're like a jealous narcissist and now you're a psychotic and I can't be with you now. That is literally like in the blink of an eye. That's how relationships can end or get better.

Wow, yeah, it sounds like an opportunity to definitely deepen the connection.

Justin Gottlieb (28:03.214)
Yeah, but are people conscious enough and present enough to do that? No, and I'm going to say it's not easy. Like it happens to all of us. I've even caught myself in moments where I'm like, okay, like I'm feeling this kind of way and I know I shouldn't go have this conversation this way, but like I feel like I need to. And it's like, and then what do I get? I get the result I know I'm going to get and this person maybe wants to distance as opposed to how do I make this conversation a more connected experience?

You know, one of the things I teach any of my clients around dating and relationships and all that is really like when you meet people, make your intention just to connect with them. Don't make your intention to, you do these like crazy things. Like I would need to get her number. I need to go have sex with her. Maybe this will be the, you my wife, you know. Just be in the space of how can I connect with this person? And with that, how can I leave everybody better off than I found them?

I love that question. God, I really hope to leave people that I encounter, even if it's a minute interaction or something that's more, I guess, longer lasting.

Yeah, mean, it happens every moment of our lives that we're able to leave some. And it doesn't mean we have to necessarily go coach them or do something. Like, I don't know, there was this guy, homeless guy, I don't know what was going on last night. And he just was taking the garbage cans out of the containers here in Austin. He just was throwing them in the streets, going crazy, knocking over the scooters and stuff. And this other guy was just walking by and he looks at me, he's like, oh my God, should we call the police? What's going on? This guy's just vandalizing everything.

And I was just like, I don't know, I don't wanna get involved, I don't want anything to happen, but then this guy's like, maybe we should at least clean this up. So I'm like, yeah, and I helped him and we put the garbage cans back and like, I don't know if this guy saw us doing that, but even if he did, we didn't confront him, we didn't kind of try to do anything and change what he was doing, but maybe he saw that we were like cleaning up after him and maybe that left him a little better off than we found him and maybe he said, man, like I don't need to do, like why would I wanna put this on other people? I don't know, but in the end,

Justin Gottlieb (30:00.566)
At least I walked away with an experience of being like, tried to leave this person better off than I found them. And, you know, we don't always know what that result is going to be.

Yeah, yeah, even when sometimes I'm like, I don't know if they're thinking that, but maybe in the long run, you know.

Sometimes it's giving someone a hard truth, right? Like, let's say you're on a date and you met them online and the pictures were just not at all what they look like. Now, I don't think you're leaving them better off than they found them by ignoring that fact. And also you're kind of not allowing yourself to have your own boundaries met, right? So I would say to that person, like, hey, you know what? Really nice to meet you and all. Like, objectively, you don't look like your photos and like...

for that reason that feels dishonest to me. you know, I appreciate you, I wish you the best, but I'm not gonna sit here and go on a date with you because of that fact, you know, and then move on. And like, that may not be great for that person, but do you think it's great for them just to like continue on and pretend and waste your own time when you're not attracted to this person or you feel like they're being dishonest? No. So in a way, like that's a lot of work I do with my clients too, is like, I'm gonna be real with you. Even if everyone in your life isn't.

And not because they don't love you, because they do love you. They love you so much and they feel like they don't want to hurt you and they don't want to say the things that might hurt you. But like, we've all had friends who you're like, they're started dating this person. You're just like, oh no, this is going to be a disaster. And then what do they end up doing? They end up ditching all their friends for this person. It turns toxic. Next thing you know, they're calling you all the time for relationship advice. And I'm like, I'll just be like, you should not be with this person. This is a complete disaster. I can see it from out here. You can't see it because you're in love and infatuated and comfortable and all of that. And that's cool.

Justin Gottlieb (31:35.266)
and I'll support you, but I'm not gonna get into consistent conversations about this over and over again. You're gonna have to either see for yourself, you're gonna have to trust me and move on, or find your way to make this a healthy relationship, but I'm not gonna be in the middle of it. And again, that's being true to yourself, that's leaving this person better off than you found them, and also like saving yourself a lot of stress and time with those conversations that you know are gonna be difficult.

Justin Gottlieb (32:04.938)
I think it's like an addict. Like if someone's an addict, you can only love them from afar. You cannot change them and force them not to do the thing that they're doing. And it's hard, right? Because you love them and you're seeing someone self-destruct, but like, unfortunately that's their journey. And you know, there's plenty of outlets for them if they choose to. And that's why I say you love them. You say, I'm here for you if you need anything. You don't enable them, right? But if that's what's going on, you kind of have to realize that like I can't control everything that everyone else does, you know?

I've been in relationships too where I've been like, oh my God, like I get out of it and I'm like, all of a sudden my eyes are clear. And that was a disaster. like, you know, some of my family was like, yeah, we felt like that wasn't, you know, the best one for you or whatever. I'm like, why didn't you tell me? The reason they don't tell you is because A, most people don't listen, right? And B, like it's tough to tell someone that because you're all like, you know. Honeymoon phase. Yeah, honeymoon phase. You're all excited and.

Exactly, why didn't you tell me?

Justin Gottlieb (32:56.578)
You know, and then it's that. So I pretty much have an open door policy with any of my close friends and family. I'm like, hey, if you see something off with someone I'm dating or you can tell it's, you know, I'm doing one of my patterns, then let me know. Like, I'm not saying I'm gonna immediately be like, you're right, I'm gonna break up with this person, but at least I have a data point. And for me, like when I have people in my life like that, I can't, if they're really close with me, I can't let that slide. I can't just like not tell them.

I want to tell them and I go, you know what? This is your life. You choose what you want to do. I'm just going to put my input in here. And if I'm wrong, I hope I'm wrong. And I hope this works out great. But if I'm right, I at least came to you and care about you enough to tell you what I see.

I feel like that would make me have a deeper level of respect for someone if they're telling me what I don't want to hear. like, even if I'm not going to take the advice, I'm like, OK, well, know who I do want to go to for advice or who's looking out for me even in those situations.

You know you if you want to hear it, but if you don't want to hear it, you know now that person you And then what happens then then they're like, oh and then they tell their partner who you know Oh, he was saying this the next thing, you know, you're like the bad guy So like it is really taking a big leap and a risk So you have to be able to deal with the blowback if you're are gonna be that honest with somebody and for a lot of people They don't want to and then I get it I'm not saying everyone should run around telling everyone everything they think

but also a lot of times you're doing a big service by giving someone the hard truth or at least giving, again, giving a data point. You're not saying you should break up with this person, you shouldn't be with them. It's just like, hey, what I'm seeing here is this could be a trauma bond or whatever. hopefully if they're conscious people, they'll at least look at it.

Kristin (34:28.832)
Yeah, I've had it like been successful for me or landed a little easier when it was like framed in a question. it like, well, what about the, so I'm like, okay, that becomes like my own little data point or for me to ponder or reflect. Cause I think that sometimes if I'm just given like this, I'll, I'll push back against someone telling me this, but if it's posed in like a maybe or a question, then I'm like, it's a little, I'm a little more receptive to that.

Yeah, think the first step is do I want to go share anything with this? But then it's like how do I approach this person? And everybody's different. Like for me, I'm like, just give it to me real. I don't need the sugar coating. I don't need the questions. Just tell me what you're seeing. But most people are not like that. Most people do want like, hey, so have you noticed anything? And you kind of like lead them into it very slowly and very safely and delicately. that takes some skill to be able to do that with somebody.

relationships. I'm like, where to go from here now? I'm like, let me see what else I got here on my little questions here.

Well, I'm in between back-to-back Tantra retreats right now. Yeah. I host the Tantra Love Retreat here in Austin. This was my seventh one. And tomorrow we start level two, our first time doing level two of the Tantra Love Retreat. And this has just been such a blessing, so beautiful. think we've had over 200 people come through these retreats. That's awesome. And yeah, it's a unique opportunity. I think me and Leola, who I do the retreat with, we really took the best of of everything we've learned, everything we've wanted to create.

Yeah, we're both very similar. It's beautiful to ever retreat with the masculine and feminine, but both people who kind of have a lot of experience, a lot of travels, a lot of different trainings to come together and be able to offer this to people in a way that doesn't feel too, you know, too woo-woo and crunchy and also definitely not like too corporate or whatever. It's this really happy medium for anyone who's a beginner or even intermediate or even advanced that wants to go to an experience and like create community, face some fears that they may have around

Justin Gottlieb (36:30.676)
intimacy, their body, sexuality, learn tantra massage, both on a woman and on a man, and yeah, and be able to really empower yourself. So it's been amazing and it's a great opportunity to come out to Austin.

How did those come about?

Funny enough, we actually told this in the retreat because a lot of people don't know like how I met Leola and I just slid into her DMs a long time ago and I just loved what she was doing and you know, there's not a lot of people that do the kind of work that we do and also not a lot of people that speak and kind of come from the same kind of place I feel like that I do when I teach this stuff. And yeah, we kind of talked, she invited me on her podcast and then we were like, hey, let's meet up. So we met up and

from that meeting when she came to Miami, what really was birthed from that was an amazing friendship and also that we should do an event together. And that was kind of what it was. And I think Leola really has a big grand vision and I was never really wanting to do retreats or thinking about that. But when she kind of proposed that and when I like saw her, I'm like, oh, I feel like she can really hold me and that she can really, like this would actually be a 50-50 partnership.

And it literally has been nonstop, like just 50-50 and how we teach, the way we teach, who we bring in, everything has just worked out so perfectly that we don't even have to look at the details. So it's just very rare to have a partner like that. And, you know, I've had a lot of partnerships in business and other ways that kind of have just gone so far south. And I'm just like, ugh, I don't want to do that. I'd rather just do my own thing. So that like, you know, rebel leader mentality comes in and then, you know, sometimes you end up doing nothing.

Justin Gottlieb (38:03.008)
So it is really important to reach out to people that are maybe in your field or people that maybe you could partner with and just see what happens. Just meet, just talk and see where that goes. And now, you the impact we've had with this retreat as a huge butterfly effect around the world. So we're very happy and feel very grateful for the success for all the people that have come through. And yeah, and we're constantly expanding and we're bringing this now all over the world doing this at other people's events where we kind of come in and do some workshops.

high-end sex parties and different events around the world and people that are not in the tantra or spiritual world are coming to us and maybe they're in the swinger world or maybe they're just corporate, know, entrepreneurs and whatever and they know they want to enhance their love life or they want to have a deeper, more profound experience of sexuality and pleasure and then they resonate with us. So it's been amazing to see this all expand and yeah, I more and more people get to.

explore their sexuality with whoever and however they feel comfortable.

Yeah, well you mentioned too, like having that male, female, or masculine, feminine, because I know there's like a lot of women's circles or men's circles, but I do think there's like such power in being witnessed by both or, yeah, speaking into those things in front of men and women.

Yeah, I mean, my biggest challenge is when I first kind of started going to Tantra retreats and all these like co-ed things was like a lot of them, it's like, well, you can only come to this Yoni massage workshop if you have a person with you, a partner, you can't just come alone. So it's like, now I'm at this festival and I'm like, all my nerves come up and like, my God, I gotta approach somebody, I gotta like get to know them, I gotta ask them to do this thing with me. And, you know, all your stuff comes up generally when you're with, you know, the opposite sex and there's this pairing and this intimacy and all this pressure and stress.

Justin Gottlieb (39:47.086)
You know, I could definitely speak for men in that like it's not easy and It's great to be in a place where that all comes up and you have support, you know, there's assistance There's you know, usually some kind of like place you can go if you're feeling emotions come up and they take care of you So what a beautiful way an opportunity to go explore that stuff and you know Otherwise it comes up in the real world and you end up maybe just hiding your whole life and you don't go approach people to talk to them and see where where things can go so yeah, I think this work is extremely valuable and

And yeah, you gotta take baby steps. Don't just jump into the craziest thing you can do right away, or you might never wanna come back.

Yeah, like maybe what shocked, shocked out of it or.

I think a lot of people have a bad first experience, so I always liken it to anal, right? Like lot of people have a bad first anal experience and now they're like, I'll never do that again, I'll never do that again. It's like, well, have you ever done it with like care and with lube and with all these things? And it's like, yeah, next thing know they're having like anal orgasms, it's a favorite thing to do. Well, if you push someone into the lifestyle or you push someone into like going to a tantra retreat and they're not ready, you risk the fact that they may just never ever do that stuff again and they'll just associate it with something negative.

I mean, that happened with me with mushrooms. I had the token like bad experience the very first time. And then I was like, it took several years to be open or get lubed up to that idea again.

Justin Gottlieb (41:08.686)
Well, that's why my motto is to try everything twice. I'm not gonna just try it once because I might have a bad experience and if I could try it twice, then I could at least see for myself, like, all right, maybe that wasn't the right person or the right whatever to do it with, but I don't have to just run from it because I had one bad experience.

Right?

Kristin (41:23.918)
true. I'm curious too, like you mentioned, bringing it up to a partner. What if, like, how would you suggest someone bringing it up to their partner if one person is interested or not in, whether it's a fantasy or whether it's like going to the Tantra Love Retreat, is there a way that you'd kind of ease into the conversation? Either a fantasy or just like, or, I want to go, for some reason Tantra's been popping up on my feed in this love retreat.

Fantasy?

Kristin (41:51.006)
I keep seeing it or hearing about it. What do you think about that?

I think, yeah, like a lot of people that go to these things and they're like, well, my partner is not into this stuff or whatever. The number one thing is you don't force it down their throat. You have to just kind of like, it's usually women asking me, like, how do I get my male partner to like get into tantra? And I'm like, well, first of all, why don't you just like leave that book I recommended to you out and he'll see you reading it. And I was just sitting there. Maybe when you're not around, he'll flip the pages and be like, oh, what is this? There's like instructions to masturbate here. There's this, there's that.

And then maybe, you you just start to get more juicy in your life and you really be it. You be tantric in your life. And he'll notice a difference and he'll be like, ooh, whatever this is going on, I like it, right? And he'll like it in you. And then maybe if he's ready, then he'll start to ask some questions and want to like join in some ways. It was really beautiful. At our last retreat though, we had a lot of women that came that have husbands that were just like, hey, you know what?

this would be great for you, why don't you go and do it on your own and have a good time? And like one of the women came up after, she's like, my husband's gonna love this, I'm definitely gonna bring him to the next one, I wanna do this with him and whatever. And it's really nice when you give your partner the freedom to like explore the things they wanna explore without that kind of fear that a lot of people have. It's like, my God, we don't have to like all the exact same things. And sometimes maybe they're not that into it and maybe there's other ways that they can explore it that isn't necessarily going to a Tantra retreat, that might be too much.

But I think it's really about your beingness rather than trying to do things. It's like when my family thought I was in a cult, I just kept trying to enroll them to come to this training. You gotta come, you gotta come. And I mean, my mom did go, my brother and my dad did not. And my mom did go and like, she got some stuff out of it, but none of it stuck. And at one point, like down the line, she was like, well, I just did that for you. And I'm like, my God, that's such a mom thing to say, first of all, but also like you.

Justin Gottlieb (43:44.372)
If you're doing something for someone else, it's not really gonna hit you. It's not gonna be absorbed. It's not gonna shift your life. And maybe that's the only shot that you have for them to do it. And you know, my mom hasn't really done anything like that again. And maybe that's why. Maybe if I just showed everyone how I shifted and what ways and like, I'm more, you know, loving, I'm more caring, I'm more considerate, whatever, then they would take that on themselves.

Kind of like magnetize that curiosity by the being. love that. I love that, yeah, the partnerships or the relationships. I think it's healthy to like go and explore and do things individually together. Because I feel like you're still bringing something back to that dynamic whenever you explore your curiosities or have the safety and freedom to do that too. It's like you can still enrich the relationship by doing that versus like

both having to like be enrolled in the.

Yeah, there's a big difference between like, have your things you like to do and they have theirs, which is a good, healthy thing. Versus like, I'm going down this path, which is like an entire lifestyle and my partner's not into it. Right? Like that's different. Like I did some people who like they've just had their spiritual awakening and they want to go do all these spiritual things and they want to explore and learn. And like, they don't want to be held back when they're going to these things. If their partner doesn't want to go and they, their partner says no interest in it whatsoever. They're never going to do it. And then it's like, well,

you've made a change in yourself that maybe you wouldn't have dated this person if you met them right now. So now it's like, well, now you have to be in integrity and kind of like say, hey, I've shifted and this is really important to me. And if it's not for you, I understand. And like, now what do we do? And like have that kind of conversation hopefully with like a therapist or coach or someone who can help guide you through that because sometimes it is just that you've changed and you can't change so much in your own life. And if your partner is not changing with you and expect things just to work out.

Kristin (45:36.683)
Mm-hmm.

And especially if it's the woman trying to go to these more awakened experiences, she's gonna be more connected to herself and maybe want to explore more things. And a guy's gonna be left behind if he doesn't start to explore that. And he doesn't need to, but he may need to find somebody else who's not into that stuff to make a relationship work. it's...

It's tough sometimes, but I think making those tough decisions and not settling, whether you're getting into a relationship or you're already in one is so important because a lot of my work also focuses around death and the urgency of life and that we don't know how long we have and, you know, are we gonna live in this moment and do the things we wanna do? Because one day everyone is gonna be on their deathbed or whatever, maybe it's just because you go like that, but at some point you're gonna have a moment where you're gonna look back on your life and you're gonna go.

Holy shit, I have either of all these regrets or I did everything I could ever imagine I wanted to do. I have no regrets. I didn't settle on, know, not many people are gonna be able to say that. A lot of people are gonna say, I can't believe I spent all this time in this office doing something I didn't care about, making money for someone else just so I could get by. Or I can't believe I stayed with that person because I just met them when I was a teenager and we were married for all these years and I just was comfortable or I had to stay together because of religion or the kids or this or that, which is a story you made up.

instead of just being as happy as you can and following your truth throughout your life. I think if you follow your truth, you've healed your stuff, you've figured out, and I'll give you my like tips for life. This is like how to live a perfect 10 life. First is healing. You have to heal from whatever stuff you've got. Everyone's got something and it could be major trauma, it could be major indoctrination, it could be minor things, but either way, you gotta look at that and heal. And from that healed place, now you know who you are.

Justin Gottlieb (47:22.968)
You're like, okay, I've shaken off all that stuff. I've peeled all the layers. I know who I am now as who I am now. I need to explore this world and experiment and start to see like, what are the things I like? What don't I like? How do I own my new self? And then the next level after that is like mastery. Now it's like, I know who I am. I know the things I like. I know what I don't like. Now I need to master that and be able to communicate that with people in a really high level way. And typically that ends up in

whether you're teaching people things or you're inspiring people just by the way you live. And nowadays, you you could be teaching people things just because you have an Instagram account, but it also could be like, yeah, I'm running retreats and doing things like I'm doing, making it your life's work or your business or whatever. But that's where you end up at some point if you go on that path. But a lot of people get stuck because they don't even do the healing. So now they're kind of living a life that is not theirs. Yeah, half lived, not theirs, whatever you want to call it.

Some people just do the healing and they get stuck there their whole life. And now of course we always are healing. I'm not saying you're done with healing, but some people are just empowered victims. constantly like feeling like. Yeah, and that's their identity. Their identity becomes like, I've got this issue. I've got this diagnosis. I've, you know, whatever. I identify with this thing. And it's like, instead of doing that, why don't you just like heal from these things and explore what else is possible? What's the future instead of living in the past?

Fixing something cycle, think. Yeah.

Kristin (48:47.266)
Yeah, what do you suggest to someone that's having like a kind of an awakening or they're getting a sense of the possibilities that are available to them, but they're like in that relationship that is dead. And, you know, I know a couple of people that say they're staying for the kids. I'm like, can I offer you a different perspective? Like if you were to leave, you would could possibly should give, give an example of a loving, caring relationship or intimate, whatever it is. But I was going to get your two cents on that.

I I was a psychology major at Penn State and I've studied a lot of this stuff and pretty much all the research I've seen has said, do not stay together for the kids, especially if you have a really tumultuous verbally abusive, that kind of relationship, because they're gonna see that and they may model it or they may just have a lot of trauma from it. And when you kind of rip the bandaid off and have a very healthy kind of uncoupling and they could grow up with seeing two happy parents, even if they're not happily together, that creates a

Yeah, better lifestyle for them and a better model for maybe how they can create their life. And also they get to see like, hey, sometimes relationships don't work out and we could still be loving and we could still care about each other and be kind. And in a world where it's so polarized and so divisive, I think that's more valuable than anything else. And I don't know what you're gaining by staying together for the kids. I mean, I could tell you my parents got divorced when I was in my early twenties and me and my brother saw them arguing all the time and we're just like, well,

Why don't they get divorced? Even we were questioning it at a young age of being like, this is uncomfortable, seeing all this. And thankfully he and I really didn't make those same mistakes, but many people will. And I think you really have to do the research, look up these things. People are just doing stuff because they're doing it. I I'll get into other things like circumcision. And it's like, why are we still doing that? Is there any real reason? And I've done all the research and there's really no good reason. People say, oh, it's for like...

Hygienics and health and this and that it's like no it's not it's there's plenty of millions of people in Europe who don't do it And they're just fine. Why are we still doing it? We're just because we're not thinking we're not doing the research and we're just like this is it and we're a Sheeple thing that we do and that happens with relationships. It's like alright if I was in a really bad relationship And I had kids I would go let me first of all speak to a therapist and see what they say Let me go do the research see what like the facts say about this have what impact would this have have look at the child psychology and

Justin Gottlieb (51:08.706)
Like if you really cared, you'd do that. But I think people are just kind of, again, they're being sheep. They're not really looking into like what would be the best solution. And instead, it's like they're protecting themselves too. Maybe they're scared to actually get divorced because of their own comforts, their own trauma bonds. So they blame it on the kids. we've got to stay together for the kids. And everyone's like, okay. So there's a lot to look at. Yeah, there's a lot to look at. And I'm not saying it's not scary as hell to get a divorce or to break up with someone. My God, it's like,

That's the reason.

Justin Gottlieb (51:38.606)
It's the last thing you wanna do. But I can tell you that if you have a therapist, you have somebody who's there to help guide you in a professional way, you're gonna have a much better go at it.

You can choose to do it in like a conscious way.

And anyway, forget about the kids in this point. Like, why do you wanna stay with someone that you are not having a good relationship with? Like that I would be questioning every minute of the day. And how are you leaving them better off than you found them? How are you leaving the kids better off than you found them? A lot of times one partner knows it's over and they just don't have the courage maybe to end it or they don't have the courage to have like that really conscious conversation about what could we do here. So I would say have the courage, do what you can, get the support you need to be able to communicate what's wrong and what you might need.

And in the end, people just want to feel heard. So if we can do that with each other, the solution isn't really so scary.

I like that. Well, we have just a couple minutes. Is there anything else that you want to drop in here or?

Justin Gottlieb (52:35.907)
let's see what's interesting right now. Or you're talking about like anything I want to share about my

both, whatever, whatever is feeling a laugh for you. you know what? I've been meaning to ask this question to everybody sometimes I forget. So before I forget, I'll ask what's turning you on in life right now, in or out of the bedroom.

let's see. mean, listen, in the bedroom for me, feel like I'm so public. I'm running around the world. just went to Cap Dag, which is like the swinger capital of the world, I call it. It's a naked city. cool. So you basically get there. You're in this nudist village. You can walk around from your apartment, going down the elevator to the bakery, to groceries, to the bank naked. I'm like, city? So, Cap Dag. Okay. And it's in the south of France. Okay. And yeah, it's kind of like this incredible free...

place and yeah, there happens to be a lot of like sexuality allowed in certain areas and there's a nude part of the beach that's more nudist and there's like a place of the beach where people could just have sex and everything. It's wild. I mean, I don't think there's a place I've been that's more liberated and free and people that like, you know, you're not just gonna show up there if you don't really know what's going on. So it's people that kind of have really either embraced the nudist life or embrace their sexuality. So that was wild and you know, I went to Berlin and that's always fun. So I'm like doing all those things.

Honestly, what's been turning me on is kind of crazy, but it's I've been doing a lot of day trading and I've been on X quite a bit and like learning about different stocks and different trends and what's going on in the world and like being able to get ahead of the trends and investing and making a lot of money by really just listening to different analysts and people on X that are running their own funds and whatever. it's like, it kind of feels like I have a crystal ball to the world and I know what's going to be happening next. And if you really study investments and crypto and those kinds of things,

Justin Gottlieb (54:21.816)
you're actually seeing the future in a certain way. And that's been really fun for me. And I really didn't expect that because I left the corporate world. I was in finance, I was in sales, and now I'm like, huh, I'm doing it in a different way. I'm running my own fund for myself in a sense. And it's fun because it's on my own time.

That's cool. Yeah, I love it. And I love the balance of all those in and out of the bedroom. Okay, yeah. And then now wherever people can find you.

Yeah, so I'm Tantra Love Coach on Instagram, tantralovecoach.com. I actually have a fantasy archetype quiz on my website. I'm interested in learning what kind of archetype you are. might help you kind of get into an idea of like where your fantasies can go. And yeah, I work with people individually from tantra massage to fantasy fulfillment experiences. So I will curate fantasies that you may want to have and create them in a safe way.

and I do coaching virtually and of course the Tantra Love Retreat. yeah, I'm doing all kinds of things in that world of sexual liberation. So if that's curious to you, if you're interested in even just talking to me about what's possible, reach out on Instagram or on my website and I would love to talk to you and connect. Awesome. Thanks for having me.

Thank you. you. I like that zip by.