Sex, Drugs, & Soul

From Purity Culture to Pleasure Preacher | Lauren Elise Rogers

• Kristin Birdwell • Season 4 • Episode 2

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“Sex isn’t everything, but it’s part of everything.”

What happens when a virgin bride raised in purity culture becomes a pleasure preacher?

In this raw conversation, I sit down with Lauren Elise Rogers, sexuality educator, intimacy coach, and founder of SexEdForYou.com. From growing up in the confines of religious purity culture to reclaiming her voice and becoming a sexuality educator, Lauren embodies the journey of the wounded healer by turning pain into wisdom and shame into possibility.

Together, we dive into:

  •  Growing up in purity culture and reclaiming sexual autonomy
  •  Divorce, loss, and the messy middle of healing
  • Rage as a sacred force for healing and transformation
  • Navigating grief, divorce, and the power of reconciliation in relationships
  • Indigenous attachment styles and a more expansive view of intimacy
  • Theater and play as revolutionary tools to renegotiate trauma
  • Vulnerability, choice, and aftercare as foundations for deeper connection
  • The power of play, embodiment, & rewriting trauma through somatic practices
  • Building relationships rooted in choice, freedom, and joy

This episode is for you if you’ve ever questioned the stories you were handed about sex, struggled with loss, or longed to step into a fuller, freer version of yourself.

02:25 | Growing up in purity culture, Liberty University, & courtship model 
06:30 | Dreams, divorce, & losing everything in the church fallout 
09:00 | Basement floor epiphany: from shame to “what’s missing?” 
11:20 | Mary Magdalene, Council of Nicaea, & reclaiming faith
15:20 | Attachment theory, ancestors, & the “cloud of witnesses” 
19:20 | “Sex is not everything, it’s just part of everything” 
22:40 | Rage, repair, & renegotiation with her ex 
27:50 | Play, theater roots, & rewriting trauma through somatics 
34:00 | Client story: pushing back & reclaiming her voice 
42:40 | Dating apps & divine timing 
46:30 | Lobby sparks, suitcase moment, & the first kiss 
48:14 | The 8-second kiss & body chemistry magic 
51:07 | From “don’ts” to hell-yes choices

Connect with Lauren:
Website: https://sexedforyou.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sex_ed_for_you/

The Partnership Podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/show/4svbTJuHOgI9r1BLJSNGKy?si=dAb4RT-OSFOViojsFzf_IQ

Connect with Kristin:
Website
Instagram
YouTube

Kristin's Best-Selling Book:
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Kristin (00:00.108)
All right, guys, I'm back from my little hiatus. Welcome back to Sex, Trucks and Soul today. I have on Lauren Elise Rogers. She is the owner and founder of SexEd4U.com, an intimacy and relationship coach and sexuality educator. I just want to cover my bases here. I really appreciate her flexibility in scheduling. Some personal things came up.

And welcome to Texas, Lauren. The boob-sweat capital is here to greet you. Paul, does it start to like something?

Texas welcome for sure.

Yeah, I'm always like, so...

Everyone kept saying there's a cold front. There's a cold front coming through and no cold front.

Kristin (00:42.373)
Yeah, it's not a cold. I gotta keep those wappy. Sometimes a little pat bath everywhere. Everywhere. No, pits with ass too. It's been beautiful. Yeah, it's been beautiful. But I'm glad that it lined and you were able to come and like see your friends and do this. I'm so excited to drop in with you about some things, because I feel like we have an interesting like similar background-ish, like, you know, purity culture, raising the Bible Belt. And then I would love to just like...

dive in and learn more about your story, who you are, what brought you to this point of being a pleasure preacher, which I love. I love the alliteration. And I'm like, yes to pleasure. So I'm like, where to start? guess, yeah, tell me a little bit about growing up in that environment.

think that's a beautiful place to start because I think so many of us are here because of a story. find that within this field of sexuality and relationships, so many of us are here with a little bit of a wounded healer story with a, came out of this and now we want to go back and bring others into the freedom, the pleasure, the joy, the sensuality, the sexuality that we now get to flourish in. And it feels really important to talk about-

crazy

Because I think so many would look at us and think maybe we've always been this way and it's not. It's just not true. And so I was born, yeah, in Lynchburg, Virginia, which is middle of the Bible Belt. It is right for those who might not be familiar where Liberty University exists. And that is where the Reverend Jerry Falwell started his school. And it is actually Jerry Falwell who talked with Ronald Reagan who got us the whole abstinence only until marriage education. Like true love, Wade's purity culture came from.

Lauren Elise Rogers (02:25.068)
So I'm in the hotbed. My parents, neither one of them were people of faith. They both came to Liberty after conversion experiences of their own. And I think they wanted for their kids something different than what they had experienced. My mom was actually like a movie star. She was in Friday the 13th, the original Friday the 13th. And I think she had reached a pinnacle of success that was empty. And I think she had experienced a lot of sex, drugs and soul.

It had an emptiness to it though. And so I think she wanted something different. And so like lots of good parents, you hear something that's really impactful and you're like, this will be good. And so I was raised not only in purity culture, but in this even more dark space of a courtship model. Like I truly in my family's origin belonged to my father until my wedding day. So it was boys could court me with the intent to marry, but that was it.

I was given no sexuality education. I was the oldest of five children, so very parentified, very raised. I was homeschooled, like just very, very protected. Ironically, very empowered to like also told you can do anything and very much like an entrepreneur household.

lots of confusing messages and was raised in musical theater. So it was like very much with a lot of kind of other side of the spectrum folks. Very interesting thing to grow up in, but found myself engaged at 21 and gonna be married in October, November. And my mother got sick with pancreatic cancer. And so we moved our wedding up six months. And on my wedding night, the one piece of sexuality education I was given was,

take care of your husband's needs and everything else will be fine. So we get married, a couple of weeks later, mom dies. My then husband is triggered by her death and starts battling alcoholism and many, many other tortured things. On our honeymoon, I throw some laundry away on, he laughs at me. I think something's off, like something's really off. But I was raised with this idea that

Kristin (04:08.334)
Wow.

Lauren Elise Rogers (04:33.89)
The struggles of a marriage should not be shared with anyone. Once you're married, you are married, you put these things before God, and you stay there. You don't share those things with anyone. The sins of your husband are not to be shared. A person who's really made it into the news recently is this guy, Doug Wilson. And I grew up under his family's kind of teachings, and it's been really wild to hear him talking.

and talking about how they wanna revoke the 19th Amendment, the right to vote for women, and these types of things, because this is what I was raised in. like, no, no, no, you submit to your husband, and this is obviously the type of suffering that is meant to refine you. Like this is obviously meant for you. So I stayed in this for a decade. It was disastrous. We have a beautiful child through it all. And I don't know, one day somebody starts having dreams about me, and she asked me to go on a walk, and she says, Lauren, what's up?

And I was like, what are you talking about? She's like, what is going on in your home? And for the very first time, I kind of spill it all, all the darkness that's going on. And she says, we want to get you in counseling. And I said, we can't, no, no, no, can't do that. Cause my husband's going to say I'm tattletaling on him. And she said, even more of reason to get you into therapy. Let's get you in right now. So it got me into therapy. Long story short, that led to a separation, then to a divorce. But in the...

lace I was in inside of Christianity, I lost everything. It was not an approved divorce. The church did not see that there was any grounds for divorce. I was told to take a psych evaluation because my husband was saying one thing and I was saying another. It was wild. To watch your face is so helpful because I'm

It's bad. It's bad. I wrote down some things and then I have like chills and then I'm in awe because I'm like, I thought I grew up in pre-historic culture. I'm like, whoa. And then I have questions about, it's like for me, you know, there are like messages that we can receive in our dreams and our subconscious and that sort of thing.

Kristin (06:36.206)
I'm curious also about the woman, what the relationship was to her, was she in the community too?

She was, but she is, she's a midwife. is listening. She knows, like, I just, she is a soul sister and she could feel. And this is not uncommon for her to have dreams about others as well. And she speaks them. I have goosebumps everywhere. And she doesn't keep it inside. And she said it so beautifully in that if I had not felt comfortable to answer her, there would have been no shame. She just,

She knew she needed to say something and she did such a beautiful job too of not creating a codependency of me onto her then, right? She heard, received, and then said, let's get you professional help. Which I think was so beautiful too, like she knew her role was to hear and to connect.

or create like some kind of traumatic bond. I think it speaks to honoring intuition too. Did you have like a prior relationship?

Yeah, I am to swoop.

Lauren Elise Rogers (07:40.354)
so deeply.

I built a nonprofit organization during my whole journey and she was on our board of directors and we had built a friendship that was very like well respected like I just respected her as a human and I think she respected me as a human but not it wasn't like we were like texting daily it was like a very respectful like I see you as a woman type of relationship but that was it I mean this was very much an out of the blue text we became closer through

Yeah, I can imagine. But what's wild?

Well, this ended up in the end of the story is I lost everything, lost my house, lost my community because I was now an outcast and moved into this little tiny apartment in the basement of a house. And it was there on the floor of that basement apartment that I said, what now? And I said, okay, so I'm no longer a virgin. Am I a whore? And what?

Was I missing? I feel like there's something missing. I feel like I could now go have sex with whomever I wanted and that sounds fun. I should maybe do that. But also, really? Is that all there is and what am I missing? What was I not told? And so I started gobbling up books. It was like one book would lead to another, lead to another, lead to another, lead to another, and like my stack on my nightstand just got bigger and bigger.

Kristin (09:06.926)
Both night stands.

I had friends start saying like, what's happening? You're changing, you look lighter, you look more in touch with yourself. What is happening? And I think the narrative that had been given to me was that if I left evangelical fundamental religion, I would then slide down the slippery slope into hedonism and just the depths of depravity. And instead they were seeing me glow and stand up taller and feel more aligned with myself than I ever have before.

Here's a film that's been brought to base the base. Talk about a Phoenix Rising story. curious, do you remember any of the books that you read at that point?

Caleb Owen's Wild Woman's Way was a really like instrumental one, which, and then also, I'm gonna blank out her name right now. It's called Mary Magdalene Revealed. very, very important to me. Mary Magdalene. I love me some Mary Magdalene. And all of the lies that we were told inside of religious orthodoxy about this human who was Mary Magdalene. And I think that kind of just, it was like shackles falling from your eyes of,

I think that's been like, I think there's more on the other side.

Kristin (10:18.958)
Now I'm curious about how did that shift your relationship to God or Christianity or like what what how did you begin to question that or what?

I think Mary Magdalene revealed led me to so many things that led me to really deep diving on the Council of Nicaea. So for those who might not know, the Council of Nicaea is this group of men who formed what we now know as the Christian Bible. And what I learned about those men was really horrifying because they were misogynists and they lived in a patriarchal culture and they were really big followers of Plato.

And Plato believed in this thing called dualism, that the mind was more holy than the body. And so once I began to really lean into the opinions and the beliefs of these men that put our scriptures together and also kept out things like Mary Magdalene's writing, they found Mary Magdalene's scrolls in three different places. They also found Thomas's, Doubting Thomas, in different places.

Okay, I'm reading Gospel of Thomas right now and then Mary's next. enjoy. Yeah, I'm just, yeah.

So beautiful.

Lauren Elise Rogers (11:22.446)
So beautiful. So once I realized that I had been lied to, I started to just kind of put together my own faith. And I love to say now that I believe in magic and miracles. And I believe in a loving creator. I just do. It feels really good to me to believe that there is a being, I'm gonna cry, who deeply cares about my wellbeing and about the humans around me. I don't think you can go through death and not believe in that.

Yeah.

Lauren Elise Rogers (11:51.852)
Because I deeply believe, as I've just learned so much, that there is just like this barely a veil separating us from those who have gone on and from those who have been before, right? So once I started to study indigenous attachment style, I started to learn that these ideas of secure attachment are so Western and so, right, you're either anxiously disorganized or avoidantly attached. And they're like, what the flip?

Right?

You don't get to choose who you're born into. What about all of your ancestors who loved you and what did you hear? And when I started to learn, Ching Tom taught me about this web of attachment theory. I think of it as me falling back almost into a hammock.

of the people who've loved us way before we even existed, which to me, that sounds an awful lot like what the Christian scriptures call the cloud of witnesses. And when I think about that, and I think about my mother being present here, right? And how now she probably knows, right? Now she's probably like,

I'm Lauren. I'm so sorry.

Lauren Elise Rogers (12:56.686)
It enables me to truly function more securely in sex and relationships.

that is so beautiful. I'm like, I mean, you know. mean, death and loss has been like such a core theme throughout my entire life. so it's like through that, though, I've been shown through dreams, through signs, through synchronicities that I'm like, I have in some ways through my relationship with my dad, who has also died, has grown significantly beyond his death. And some people look at me like.

What? I'm like, yes. And then so like whenever my grandma, who just recently passed, I just would have this vision of him welcoming her and being so excited. And it would just bring me so much peace. And so I love that. And then I also, I'm curious about the indigenous attachment styles too.

So I want to definitely say Kai-Ching Tom is the who really introduced me to some of these things of that we are, we're so Western, right? And it's like, we're broken and we should be fixed.

hate that. I'm in this phase right now where I'm like, I'm not broken. No. And I don't even like the word healing right now. I like the word harmonized. I love it. Because I'm like, I'm not a project. And I've tried that for years and years.

Lauren Elise Rogers (14:15.554)
think what it does is the same thing as religious institutions do, which create codependencies. And I say this, I see the same modality at work in spirituality groups and in yoga places. it's like, well, if you're not in class, why weren't you in class?

Show up on your mat, right?

And I'm like, whoa, like I smell, you smelled, it's just a horse of a different color. And so when I learned that, indigenous people forever have just believed that it's not just your parent of origin, right? We don't get to choose the caregivers that we're born into. So we don't get to choose how we develop our attachment style. But that truly, there's almost this web of attachment that goes out and I think of like a spider web. And so if I think of every little string, and this has just been so helpful to me, because when I thought of,

Okay, I don't think that my mother was prepared to give birth to me. I think she did struggle with severe post-partum depression. I don't think she was able to breastfeed. I was a cesarean section. You look at all these things, I'm like set up to be messed up. Right? Like, that's it. And then you look at this patriarchal world I was existing in and that I was literally told, well, yes, you're the firstborn child, but you're not the firstborn son.

yeah, wow.

Lauren Elise Rogers (15:27.468)
And so I really did work to think, well, what ancestors or people in my life did want me here? And my grandfather did. My grandfather, there's story after story of him being the only person who could call me and put me to sleep. And I'm like, I wonder if little infant Lauren knew. Dude, it's the only one who's super happy that I'm here. when I can, when I can write, when we can take a deep breath,

She was like this.

Kristin (15:51.822)
Feel that.

Lauren Elise Rogers (15:55.95)
and lean back into, especially that back body of ours, that secure web of attachment that holds us.

Yes!

Lauren Elise Rogers (16:05.698)
Then I like to remind myself and my clients, well then from that vantage point, we are able to broaden our window of tolerance. We're able to think beyond what safety seeking strategy I need to take in order to stay attached. Because as human beings, we desire deeply to remain attached. And guess what? Loss and grief are hard. Like for anyone who's gone through death and grieving process, we know that being separated from someone you love is not, not comfortable.

And so the things we do as human beings to stay attached to even just a casual lover, don't surprise me, because they come from abandonment wounds, anxious things. But when we can think of this web of attachment, this cloud of witnesses, however you want to think of it, I really find that from that place, I can make different decisions. Not better or worse, because I'm just not here for that, different.

Yeah. Well, what comes up for me is that the fear or love. Yeah. And so if like I'm, if I'm rested and feeling supported, I'm more likely to make a decision that's more in alignment with love versus one that's a little bit more fear-based. and then, and embracing that support too. So it's like, I feel like I can make a more grounded decision from that space.

when we're making decisions out of fear, right? When we're reaching the clutch and cling to something. I always tell my clients, I'm like, guys, it is not gonna be shamed in this space because a littler version of you did that to remain safe and it worked really well. But when we start to see that those same safety seeking behaviors no longer have a positive impact, well then that's interesting.

Bye bye.

Lauren Elise Rogers (17:42.348)
then we can look at the overwhelming sensations our bodies experience. Some call it flooding, some call it fear. When we're triggered by something, whether it's somebody not texting us back, whether it's...

had that recently. I know. A couple weeks ago.

It's like the same thing happens, right? It's like, wow, I've felt this before. And it is usually a triggering of a much deeper, more precious source wound.

yeah, she's about this high, your home haircut.

And so when we can love her, right? Little Tommy. And when she is able to be seen and we're able to say, that choice you made to reach out and clutch something or to run away before was really smart.

Kristin (18:26.268)
It's really served you, it helped you.

And we're proud of you. Now let's see, now let's see what we can do going forwards. And is that having a negative impact? And how can I meet your needs? And how right now can you and I together, sweet one, meet your needs instead of making this casual lover or this other person? And that was, it's interesting because it is through, before I learned this from Kai Ching Tom and others, I was feeling it and experiencing it in casual sexual relationships. was going, okay, the sex was fine, but now my heart is longing.

Yeah.

Lauren Elise Rogers (18:57.806)
for something more. Now I'm on that basement apartment floor with my rat dying in the wall and freezing going, okay, is this all? Like, is sex everything? And it's so funny, it's now become a catchphrase of mine that I say sex is not everything, it's just a part of everything. And when information about our bodies and the bodies of others and how we function has been willfully withheld from us, it can be dangerous. It really can.

Mm-hmm.

Lauren Elise Rogers (19:21.871)
And as much as I do love, am a pleasure preacher. It's not everything. We're not all having sex all day every day, but it's just a part of it.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I definitely have vacillated between, you know, am I more monogamish, monogamy? Am I poly? Am I open? Like trying to like find, you know, or my identity or giving self, you know, in some ways. And I think the piece for me that was missing for so many years is like the sacredness of it and treating it like, or being present or with intention versus, you know, I know I tried the pendulum swing of like the...

seeking the love acceptance, validation through all of those different romantic relationships or substances or, you know, whatever. But then I also like swung back to the spiritual mediums and all the things, right? I don't even know where I was going with that, but.

I think that's such a beautiful... In so many systems, right, we can be told what to do. And it's like, do this. This is best. And sure, okay, for some people that works out fine. But I think for those of us, and you had said this before we went on air and I thought it was really cool and I wanted to talk about it, I didn't question the system for forever. Right? I didn't rebel. I didn't say, no, I want to do this my own way. And it's funny because...

Hmm

Lauren Elise Rogers (20:42.538)
It still didn't turn out well for me. Funny part of the story that we didn't really throw in there. yeah. Two-ish years after my divorce was final, my ex-husband texts me one night and says, hey, I just want you to know before I post about it in the morning, I've met someone and I'm in a beautiful, healthy, loving relationship with a man. Yeah. I said, that is amazing.

Is it too?

Kristin (21:06.286)
I wonder you laughed at me in that laundry.

I can't wait to celebrate you. This makes a lot of... Did you want to... Thank you, thank you. Will you come over to my now house and to the backyard tomorrow? And before you post, will you let me rage at you? Because I think we will be skipping a step if we go right to celebrating you because you... We didn't believe women, right? You told everyone that I was lying. You told everyone that I was a harlot gone rogue. And I want you to come over.

Thanks. Thank you. No, I'm kidding.

Lauren Elise Rogers (21:37.454)
into the backyard and I want to rage at you, not for right now. I love you, you're awesome. I'm so happy for your partner. Can't wait to meet him. I need you to come over for Lauren a couple years ago. And I need you to stand there and I need to rage. And he was like, that sounds incredible. Coming over. Oh, beautiful.

powerful and good for you to expressing that. It was wild. What a model. I know you mentioned you have a child too. What a beautiful model that you're gifting your daughter.

Thank you. It's the coolest thing ever. And I think that so many of the narratives, again, that were given are how harmful divorce is for children and this, that, and the other thing.

So I think that honoring yourself and or finding your way is a better example than staying in something that's not working out. you can when you can sense and feel it and you're modeling a relationship that's maybe not connected or intimate or deep or vulnerable or, you know, respectful, whatever it is. I mean, and I have because I know a lot of people that are saying, but our kids and like, can I offer you an alternate perspective?

You know, because I think, well, I think about like my relationship even with my stepdad and if I had not witnessed that relationship with him my mom, I would have probably not witnessed a loving, caring relationship. So I was able, I was gifted that through the divorce of my dad and my mom. So I'm curious, so he comes to the backyard and like, what did this rage, if you want to, if you want to share, like you can always.

Lauren Elise Rogers (22:59.566)
So I would love to know. was beautiful. I used so much of the language and the verbiage we use when we were crafting a container to play sexually with someone. And so was like, let me frame up the container for you. Let me tell you the beginning, middle, end. Let me share with you what I would like and would not like. You don't need to respond to any of this. I don't have questions. I just would love to express rage. And so what I would love you to do, OX husband, is stand there and play the role of

husband before and then I'll say like scene, I'll say done when we're done and we can be done and we can hug. If you have questions afterwards, you can feel free to ask them, but is that okay with you? Like getting consent before? mean, seriously, it felt like giving clients tools to write a kink or BDSM scene. This is how we'd frame it up because everybody gets to be consenting into this. Even as much rage as I have for the younger version of self, I didn't want to harm him now.

Yeah. So then I just lit into him, especially about there was a lot of question of my integrity. Was I a liar? Was I bipolar? My father is bipolar. His father committed suicide from bipolar. Like mental illness is a serious, beautiful, grave thing. And this kind of just flippant, she must be bipolar, that went around was very harmful. And then there was just a lot of not believing me and a lot of a saying

that I was a liar and a harlot and I had gone rogue and that I had kind of tossed everything aside and making it look like I was like the woman, right? The want-thin woman who had just left. And as much as I cheer for those women now, that was not the story. That was not what was going on. And he let everyone believe that I was crazy. And so I just was very specific about this was not okay and this was not okay. And then once just kind of a few of them started rolling, a lot of them started rolling.

of it was not okay when you did this, it was not okay when you did this, this destroyed me when you did this. And then at the end I said, and I need you to pay your child support because you haven't been. And if you post this about your happy, wonderful life now, I will also be putting in the comments.

Kristin (25:10.902)
I'm out of words.

I will be saying I am so happy for you

You can't go on a honeymoon out of the country.

And he got to say, why is that so important to you? I don't understand. And I said, think you need to understand that for a decade, I bore little to no importance to you because of the suppression of your orientation. And this is now an outward depiction, almost like a sacrament inside a religion, of you are honored. As the mother of my child, you are honored. And it is a small, small sum. And it is a token.

It's a token for all of the years of damage you did to me. And he was like, I never thought of it like that. Thank you for saying that. I had never considered that this would be in essence like reparations of some kind towards the trauma I put you through. And then I did ask questions about, you ever know, you know, was this something and no, and it's interesting because in school to become a certified holistic sexuality educator, such a mouthful, I did some of my research around.

Lauren Elise Rogers (26:11.938)
do folks ever suppress their orientation, especially their lesbian or gay orientation due to religious orthodoxy, due to oppression, and of course. And so I really think it took kind of some years of getting out of that for that even to bubble up for him, the safety to do that. And to even consider that. I don't even think it had been a consideration. And it was beautiful. It was really beautiful. And he got to say, I'm sorry, and big hugs. And we really have a thriving relationship now. I love him.

to like own it for him.

Lauren Elise Rogers (26:41.826)
More than I ever have.

beautiful and as I'm like that is such a beautiful practice too and I love like the setting of the scene of it I'm like yes to the theater roots too. Is that a practice too that you offer or suggest to clients?

Theater root

Lauren Elise Rogers (26:55.438)
And I think what's so beautiful is once I was in the field of sexuality and intimacy and relationship coaching and all these things, I would just giggle to myself when we'd be taught an exercise because I'm like, that's an acting action.

Yeah, no, that's what I'm like, wow,

I was even with clients this morning doing an exercise and giggling to myself because they're like, my mind is blowing. And I'm thinking, we did this exact same thing inside of black box theaters as teens. understanding, yes, that there is so much freedom in and that our nervous systems can't tell the difference, right? Our psyches don't know the difference when you give them a framework. They say, go loose, go wild, and then we're going to close the container and do some aftercare. They're like, that felt good.

They don't know the difference when we're playing a game about attachment styles. Dr. Betty Martin teaches a game where you go away and you come back and you just do it with a partner. You tell them to go away, they go further away. You notice what's happening in your body.

done that at an ISTA

Lauren Elise Rogers (27:56.942)
Whoa, it's insane to watch avoidant anxious disorder come up. But when you're getting to narrate it outside of, you know, argument with a partner or a sexual encounter where all of a sudden your voice got frozen, it's so...

Yeah, rewrite the narrative. feel like you could all, if that person isn't available or willing or consenting, mean, you could sub in someone to play that role.

You can in a friend, can sub in an educator, a coach, you can sub in anyone who's really willing to play with you, which is also so beautiful because sometimes inside of a partnership, we don't even necessarily need to quote unquote burden a partner with something else. And yeah, maybe they're not available and you're like, no, I want to work this out with somebody else. The nervous system doesn't know. That's what's so cool.

I I'm like, feel like that ties into like, so I've been like, there's, because I've been weaving a lot of like scripture with mysticism and like, you know, it was like going down Mary Magdalene, rabbit holes and all of it. And then, so it's also like how like, you know, the body keeps a score and then rewriting that and like, and then like, just how important play is, but in like using play for rewriting narratives. yeah, yeah. made me think of one of my favorite.

who is Dr. Peter Levine, who wrote Waking the Tiger, which he and who wrote The Body Keeps the Score, they're like buddies, okay? And so I think Waking the Tiger is such a perfect partner to The Body Keeps the Score, because Waking the Tiger is very hopeful. And he introduces this incredible term, neoteny, this idea that we all possess the childlike capability to imagine and play.

Kristin (29:38.67)
resources, child.

And so

So that concept that we often, inside of relationship containers, reenact our trauma because our brain is awesome and it is trying to fix it and it's like, I'll do better this time. And then we just do the same thing. And so he calls it the reenactment of trauma, which is really interesting because I live in Virginia and I live very close to the town Appomattox, which is where the Civil War ended.

Bye!

Lauren Elise Rogers (30:12.234)
Every year without fail, they dress up in their little Civil War reenactment costumes and they go out to the battlefield and they reenact the end of the Civil War. And I hate to tell everybody, but the ending's always the same. It's always the same, okay? The South always loses, slavery is always abolished, but they do this every year.

And I like to tell myself and my clients, I'm like, that's what happens when we reenact our trauma over and over again. The ending's always the same. So what Peter Levine taught me is this idea of instead of reenacting, renegotiating our trauma through play.

I was just about to say, and I feel like play is more impactful or like sticks easier or quicker than like repeating an affirmation or humming somewhere.

So I've had clients with crazy stories, because we all have crazy stories. We all have them, my friends. We are not broken. We all have crazy stories. And sometimes, oftentimes, what we will see is because sex and the expression of our bodies is actually linked to this playful stuff, we will find, I feel, all of the fear come back up.

Yeah

Lauren Elise Rogers (31:20.202)
all of the trauma come back up in sexual scenarios because it is so synonymous with the sacral and creativity and play and it's all together. So you will find folks have some real trauma that lives in their sexual expression. And they're like, what do I do Lauren? And I've said, okay, if you want to, we can rewrite the script.

They're like, what are you talking about? I'm like, okay, we know, because my clients and I all do a personal sexual timeline. We go from the beginning to now. So we know the story. We know where this lives. So how do you want to change the ending? I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm like, how do you want to change it? So we talk about how they want to change the ending, how they would have come out on top, how they would have been the victor in this scenario. And then we talk about, how could we create a playful scene that in some way mimics this? So I have one client who's given permission for this to be shared.

what they would have said or yeah.

Kristin (32:09.038)
Okay, good.

who developed this scenario. They wanted to have a daytime scene with their partner, helps that they're both actors, it's really nice. And they wanted their partner to straddle them on the bed fully clothed and hold them down, put their hands on their shoulders. We're in, they could see a clock that they were gonna let 20 seconds go by. But my client, the one on their back being held down, couldn't see it. And they wanted to, for 20 seconds only, struggle against their partner.

struggle, struggle, struggle. But then at 20 seconds, they wanted their partner to lessen the grip and they wanted to push this person off of them. And they wanted to feel like they were doing a lot of work. So they really wanted to do the pushing. And they were like, I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't know if I'm gonna scream. I don't know if I'm gonna cry, whatever. I wanna push you off of me. I wanna have my moment. And then I wanna be held on my left side. I wanna be in nurturing breath meditation. I wanna be held. I have chocolate available, all of this stuff. And let's just breeze together and regulate. That was it.

It wasn't really extensive. We involved the partner, got their full consent, let them ask questions, right? What are you afraid of? Peter Levine talks about this in his work that it's very important that the person who is doing the scene work also knows that they're holding a container and that they might see fear on their partner's face. And there is a really good purpose for this exercise, but to know the difference between fear and terror, right? And that you can always call for a pause or a stop. Anything that you would do in a kinky space can be done here.

So we set it up, the partners felt great. I was like, go, I give you all my blessing. Come back to session, tell me how it went. She comes back to session, tears in her eyes, but just this like biggest smile. I don't know, like you wanna tell me about it? She's like, yeah. Set it all up, great broad daylight, like nothing scary. And partner climbs on top, they set the timer. She's like, Lauren, it was literally like before this exercise began, it felt so stupid.

Lauren Elise Rogers (34:03.596)
I felt like, why am I doing this rinky dinky exercise? This isn't gonna do anything. And she said, the moment he started holding me down, my entire body was like, my God, it just started pushing and pushing and pushing. She said when she pushed him at 20 seconds, which she didn't know had been 20 seconds, this roar came out of her belly that went up from her belly, out her mouth, out her throat. She said, Lauren, I have never heard anything like this come out of my body. know all my entire.

I remember reading Kristal's, she's a singer by nature and she said, what was really cool is this was not a throat-based yell, this was like a guttural cry. And she said, the very thing that had been trapped was her voice. She would find herself in sexual encounters and be asked, you wanna do this? And she just couldn't speak. She couldn't speak in group sex scenarios and in play spaces. And with her partner even, was like it would just freeze. And it was like everything was just reopened again. So then he held her on her side and she wept.

But it didn't last forever. Then it turned to giggles, and then it just turned to like, what was that? And turning to him and him being like, you're amazing. And this party atmosphere. And it was through play that she renegotiated her charm.

love that story. I mean like I got full body chills, tears, and I always look at that as like truth as resonance in my body. I'm like whoa.

One of my colleagues calls it an affirmation of the Holy Spirit. He says the Holy Spirit's like,

Kristin (35:32.142)
Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's true. bumps. Yeah.

It's true if it resonates and I will often, it's why I speak of them often because I don't think people can see them always and I'm like, no.

I don't know. mean, it's supposed to be 4K. I have a feeling that they may be feeling some do. So I've actually been like toying with. Yeah. interesting. Yeah. This just gives me a lot to ponder. Well, one, there's a I mean, just in full transparency, there's like, I want to reenact something. And so that's probably another reason why I'm like, yeah.

A play is so important.

Lauren Elise Rogers (36:15.534)
I've done it. And interestingly enough, I did it with my now husband, who's wonderful and not gay at all and loves my body and my mind. But we went on an anniversary trip two years ago. This will be, yeah, it'll be two years in October. And this one day...

I was having a call with actually like a human design spirit coach person. love human design. so we were doing like a deep dive on my human design. And I was like, I want to do it on vacation. I want to do it with the ocean there. I want you to just like tell me things. And then I would spend the rest of my vacation just nerding out and jerking. So while I was doing that, he was enjoying resort life as he should. And because of my past, because of my trauma, I have a true sensitivity to a drunkenness.

I am fine with social drinking. I love it. I am a big social drinker. Drunkenness is still really triggering to my system. So my sweet partner comes over and he's been having a wonderful day as one does, but I'm sober completely because I've been doing my nerdy human design call and my body can just sense it. My body can just sense that. And so I go into fawn and I go into flight and all of these things start spinning out of control and I start losing my voice.

He hasn't really done anything. It's just I like go offline. I go into disassociation. The rest of the night was horrible. He ends up like being like, who is this human that I'm married to and like takes a walk and I think he's gone and he's been like abducted off the resort. It bad. It was really traumatic. So the next day I say to him, I think we need to renegotiate some trauma of mine. He's like, what are you talking about? And I said, you've consistently said to me when you approached me on the beach after my call,

Why didn't I just say to you, hey babe, too tipsy, bye bye, go sober up, I'll see you later, we're at my threshold, I haven't had a single drink, bye, don't feel comfy, we can talk about it later. He's like, why did you not say that to me? And I was like, that's a really good question, but I can't tell you the memory that is like right here, right now, so could we renegotiate it, and sweet guy knows this whole exercise because we've done it a couple times.

Lauren Elise Rogers (38:23.726)
And he said, sure. And I said, okay, can you walk in our resort room, our little hotel room, and can you approach me? I'm gonna pretend the couch is where I was laying yesterday, and I want you to come in and I want to say to you, hey, can you leave? And I want you to look at me and just go, no. And he was like, what? And I was like, yeah, no, just play with me here. And then I wanna say, please leave. I want you to say no again. And then I want to try to push you and I want you to resist me.

And then I want to push you hard enough and I want to yell, get out, probably. And then I want you to leave the room. He's like, okay, great, absolutely. I will do it. And I'm like, any questions? All the consent stuff again. He's like, no, great, I got it. Comes in the room. I say, will you please leave? He says no, which is just not him at all. Says no a second time. I can feel it all bumbling up. I say, I start pushing.

In that moment, the tears start flowing and I have found the connection to the memory. I push, I push, and then I push him out. He leaves. He comes back in for some aftercare. He's like, what was that about? What did you find? And I said, I found that for a decade, I'm gonna start crying now, I think, not I think, I know that I knew I could push my husband out and I chose not. And I abandoned myself in that. And what I had to just face right there,

Mmm. Mmm. Mmm.

Lauren Elise Rogers (39:46.186)
is the years that I didn't stand up for myself because I was afraid of losing. I was afraid of abandonment. And that lesson was so not about you. That lesson was about me and what I didn't do for myself. And there's grace and there's compassion. But I think I always thought that I couldn't. I thought that you and I were saying earlier, you're 5'11", I'm 5'9", I'm a big girl. Actually weak.

And I had really believed this narrative that was stuck in a little corner somewhere, that if I didn't cater to my husband, let the drunkard, right, I was gonna lose something. And I never pushed him out. And I was like, thanks, babe. That was really insightful. Now if you're ever too tipsy for me, I'm gonna be like, get out. Right? Like, no. And he's like, as you should. As you should, you get to have boundaries in the midst.

Yes. I love this relationship too. I'm like, and how, I'm like, what's the meat.

That's a good one.

Lauren Elise Rogers (40:52.91)
Yeah, he's a good story. Yeah, let's go.

I want that and then I want to do this fun lightning round. like, love these types of conversations that just flow and like, thank you for just bringing like your emotional vulnerability and just knowledge and wisdom. I'm like, I can feel you and just, this has been such a blessing. And yeah, so it's just like zip by is what I'm saying. like, what, we're already happy? We're like, yeah.

I'll tell you this, think that is actually an important part of my story and it doesn't get to be told often because I think for any of us who've come out of something and actually do the work to say, no, no, sex, pleasure. These things are our birthright now that I think sometimes, yeah, there's a messy middle. I've heard you talk about it. There is mess, my friend. We're entitled to that too. I deeply believe it. But I really was.

interested of how I was going to introduce and find the romance and the love and the partnership that I was really aching for, that was really becoming more more clear in my mind. So the nonprofit that I built during my toxic marriage got acquired during my separation and divorce. Talk about again why I have to believe in magic and miracles and a loving creator because my story is too wild. Like I was penniless and then my nonprofit got acquired and I had a paycheck. not only a paycheck, this job that like believed in me.

This is too wild to believe. But I was going to conferences and different trainings for nonprofit storytelling and things like this all over the country. And I thought, okay, instead of being, woe is me, there's no one to date in my small town. What if on my match.com app, because this was 2019, friends, what if I put in the zip codes of the places I'm visiting and not just

Lauren Elise Rogers (42:40.046)
to like see some hot guys, but to really enforce in my brain that there is more out there. The world is out there for me and that I am loved and there is goodness for me. What if it is a broadening my horizons practice? What if I'm not set out on finding love? What if I am set out in knowing that I'm loved? So I went to Seattle, I did this, I didn't meet anybody, but I chatted with a couple of really interesting guys and I was like, huh.

Mm-hmm.

Lauren Elise Rogers (43:07.318)
reminder to self, there's good humans out there still. Came back to Virginia, this is October 2019, and then was traveling to San Diego, California for work, so I was like, why not do it again? So I put San Diego's zip code in, and then just spend the night scrolling as one does. And with this, in match, you're not like swiping right or left at that time, you were like sending a message. But I just saw this guy's picture, roll up, Trey, and I was like, like my whole body went home.

And I just hearted his profile almost like as a bookmark. Like we'll circle back on that one, but hmm. Like I can still remember his eyes like piercing through the photo. It was a headshot. He was an actor in previous life. So it was good photo. And I was just like, huh. Then a couple of days later I get a message in my inbox and match that says, Lauren Love, you're in Virginia. State your business. Like what are you doing liking my profile? So was like, oh, cheeky man. So I write back.

I am traveling to California for work. I like to keep my options open with like a little winky face. And he was like, here's my phone number. Send me a message. We'll talk on the phone. love that. All of my green flags. He says, hey, let's get out of this app and let's talk on the phone. Yes. Anyone listening to you? Not let's.

Love that too.

Yes.

Kristin (44:20.096)
Yes. Feel like having conversation. Let's sext.

And he, no, let's get to know each other. So he calls, we talk on the phone for maybe 15, 20 minutes, evening time for me. Apparently he was in the Trader Joe's parking lot. He remembers exactly where it was. And it was as if, Kristen, we had known each other our entire lives. We were laughing, we were joking, we were being sarcastic. We were being like just ourselves. And I think there was something in me that did know, this guy's in California, I have nothing to lose, there's nothing to hide.

Like I don't need to impress anyone. And so I was just being me. I was being facetious. I was being whatever. Just me on I don't know, Tuesday night. And we both could feel the connection. He was like, let's get together when you're in town. I was like, great. I fly in this date and the conference starts the next day, but I'm just coming in a day earlier to get acclimated. And I was like, that night sounds perfect. And he was like, great. I'll pick you up at eight. And I said, great. I get it like seven.

So I get into my hotel at seven, this part is important, I know it sounds like I'm telling really weird details, but I get in at seven, San Diego airport for anybody who doesn't know, like you fly in, it's right in the middle of San Diego, you're like there. So it was like a two second Uber ride from the airport to my hotel. get to the hotel, I'm checking in, I look across the lobby, and I see a man who looks like him, and I'm like, but I have like an hour. So I text him and I'm like, is that you? I'm at the counter. Because I don't know how anybody else travels, but most of the time.

I travel with like my biggest comfy sweatshirt, my baggiest jeans, my thickest shoes, because I didn't want to put it all on my carry on. And so I look like frumpy town. Frumpy town, which is fine. It's real. I'm not here for the male gaze, but I was also like, fuck. Like, God. So I wasn't thinking like, ooh, can't wait to meet you. I was thinking,

Kristin (46:11.726)
Like this is

not how I wanted to make my first impression. So I'm checking at the counter. I don't get a text back, so I'm like, fine. So I check in, I turn around, and there he is across the room, feet planted, just looking at me. And my whole body went, there he is. And I walked up to him. He walked towards me. I said hi. He said hi.

do.

Lauren Elise Rogers (46:34.988)
I was like, you're early. He said, yeah, I just didn't know how traffic would be. And I said, do you mind if I go get changed? He's like, no, no, of course. I will wait here. You go get changed. And I said, OK, great. It's so nice to meet you. I put my, I bring my hand down to touch like the handle of my suitcase and his hand is already there. And entire electric shocks went through my body. So I'm, yes, for like the eroticism, but also for, this was a man who was just going to wheel my suitcase to the elevator.

Yes. Yes.

just this simple act, I'm no, no, no, I'll wield this for you. And I'm gonna leave you here, then I'm gonna go sit down. Put me, my God. And I am a powerful woman and it was like all of a sudden he went, me. So I came down, he's sitting in a chair, we're talking and it's so funny, because my best friend had heard a couple of voice memos we had sent back and forth to each other that were not even sexual, they were just like fun.

and seen his photos and she said, Lauren, you are going to be kissing this man within 10 minutes of meeting him. I was like, I don't do that. She's like, just count my words. So we're sitting in the lobby. He's saying something and it's interesting human design now that I know he is a projector. So he is to wait for the invitation and I am a generator and I'm hearing him speak and all of a sudden I go, may I kiss you? And he's just mid-sentence and he doesn't speak. He just puts his hands in my hair and leans forward and kisses me.

And now I know all the research about all of the microbiome stuff we're passing between our saliva and all these things in an eight second kiss. We can know so much, but it was magic. Eight seconds. Eight second kiss. Give me one bullwrap.

Lauren Elise Rogers (48:14.286)
We kissed and it was as if, yeah, it was like, there we go. there we go. So then we had this amazing date and the rest is history. We fell in love and now he moved to Virginia and we have a house and he's probably in the parking lot. You can meet him.

I thought it was that guy. think that might be them, but I'm going to go use the bathroom.

That's what I said. He was like, do you want to get out now? was like, I like, I'll let you. I need to use my. So anyway, that's him. He's mine.

I love it. love it. And I'm like, tell me about this eight second bio.

An anthropologist talk about what we look for as a species, right? And that men are really looking for without guys, we're not doing this like to be creepy. This is just what's happening in our biology. Men are really looking for full hips, right? Soft belly because they were more fertile, which is so sweet to think about that here we're trying to like be these stick figures. Like men don't want that and our bodies don't even know.

Kristin (49:12.91)
Do it!

That's what men are looking for and then women are really looking for shoulders, which is interesting. But then also that we sense people out by smell. Very much my smell. And that is interesting because you can smell a person right before you. be repulsed. can be repulsed. And yet with Trey, my now partner, I mean, I am like addicted to his smell. It is the weirdest thing ever. then kissing a person, yes, we share all of this back.

Yes.

Kristin (49:29.304)
I that.

Lauren Elise Rogers (49:42.35)
inside of this kiss, which makes so much sense. And so this is why some people will say like, ugh, like I didn't like the taste of their mouth or it doesn't matter how much gum you use. Yeah, eight seconds apparently, you can really pass enough bacteria back and forth from our gut microbiome to make a like, like really intelligent decision for yourself. So when people are like, don't kiss on the first date, I'm like kiss on the first date.

I listen to it. I think so many of us are like, oh no, but it wasn't, because we're so dumb in this beautiful intuition.

also think it's interesting too though with birth control how when women are on birth control and if they're sent, if it's messing with the hormones.

Yeah, because more and more research, you, my listeners haven't heard some it, is really emphasizing it just keeps coming out that we will sometimes be repulsed by like it is messing with. So it's just, it is worth doing a little scientific experiment on your own.

Yeah, because then it's like if after a marriage and you're wanting to have kids and suddenly you're not the pheromones are different or registering to different or this I don't know what it all affects but I'm gonna I think that's interesting and to me I'm have a theory that I haven't done a lot of research on this I listen to like a guy talk and like could then like you know in a couple videos but I'm like is that could that lead to mismatch libido's or sexless marriages because then the lack of desire someone not wanting to really who did I marry?

Lauren Elise Rogers (51:07.214)
Yeah.

I ruined it and what I was there, Lungung Ho, premiered, I don't know. Anyway, I got off on a little tangent. I don't even know if any, I loved our conversation.

Kristin (51:20.782)
Yeah, I'm like, do they even make some I'm just gonna scan them real quick. let's see. I'll do okay. purity culture gave us a lot of don'ts. What's your favorite? Hell yes now.

Lauren Elise Rogers (51:40.504)
leaning in and making mistakes and letting experience be our best teacher and letting sex be meh and saying, huh, what did I learn from that? Doing something and going, what did I learn from that? And seeing something as a lesson instead of a further affirmation that you are a bad person. Yeah, this idea of, uh-uh, we get to choose. Choice is.

Hmm

Kristin (51:47.928)
Mmm.

Kristin (52:04.43)
Mmm.

Lauren Elise Rogers (52:09.992)
Maybe choice. Choice is my greatest hell yes.

I love twice. Choices. always have the power to choose.

game-changing. My therapist that that beautiful dream friend got me into, I will never forget our second session, she said to me, Lauren, why are you choosing to stay? And I literally, my jaw hit the floor and I said, choice, choosing, what? And she said, yeah, why are you choosing to stay? And I said, I don't think I had a choice. I made my choice when I chose to get married. She was like, no, my dear, you are choosing. You are in choosing because you were choosing to stay. yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kristin (52:40.942)
I think that there's a lot of personal responsibility and choice and a lot of freedom and pleasure and that's a good like if I if this was you yeah just doing it yeah awesome well any last bits that you want to share

We could drop our mic. We'd be dropping our-

Lauren Elise Rogers (52:58.51)
Just thank you. Open hearted conversation. My intent that I said is that it would feel like a gift for both of us and you already said that word earlier and I was like, yay, it was my intent for today to feel like a gift and yeah, if anyone out there is listening and they want to know more about me, they can go to sexedforyou.com forward slash connect.

Thank you. That's so lovely.

Lauren Elise Rogers (53:19.148)
That's all. And I have a partnership podcast with that partner that we were talking about. Yeah. And so there's there's like a little place on there that you can if you're like, my God, I want to learn more about working with Lauren, you can do that there. But if you're like, I just want to know more about that Lauren person. Yeah. Go to my podcast and listen to my partner and I. Thank you. Yes, this was a gift. Awesome.

Love