79. Use Life’s Sh*t Moments as Fertilizer with Pia Leichter

This week, I chat with Pia Leichter, an artist and embodiment guide, to explore how creativity, play, and ritual have helped both of us move through life’s biggest transitions. We talked about the beauty of death ceremonies, the power of stillness, and how tuning into our bodies can guide us through grief, joy, and everything in between.

Some of what we explored:
✦ How creativity opens up when we stop trying to control everything
✦ How pleasure can be a guide, not just a goal
✦ What death rituals can teach us about living more fully
✦ The importance of play and joy in healing

If you’re navigating change or craving a deeper connection with yourself, I hope this episode gives you space and insight to imagine a new way forward.

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Check out Pia's book on Amazon!

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Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 8:49 Death Ceremonies and Letting Go
• 18:05 Navigating Chaos and Rediscovering Creativity
• 26:50 Taking Baby Steps Towards Conscious Creation
• 33:00 Reclaiming Joy and Celebrating Achievements
• 41:45 The Art of Receiving and Savoring Life

Transcript

Kristin (00:00.084)
Welcome back guys to Sex, Drugs, and Soul, you beautiful humans. And if you're watching this, you probably notice an upleveling. If you're listening to it, I would greatly appreciate a review to help facilitate the growing of the podcast. And I'm excited about today's guest. She's my first one dialing in and she had such an emphasis on creativity and the transformative power of creativity. was like, okay, we got to make this work. Whatever time zones that we've got to figure out and finagle.

So today's guest is Pia Leichter She's an author. She's a founder of The Collective Studio. She's a certified coach and a creative partner. So I'm excited to dive in all things creativity and transformation. I know you like some of the language that you had like spoke to rebels and misfits. I was like, is that written for me? Like I totally like am a rebel at heart. So thanks for coming on.

Thanks for having me. I'm delighted to be

Yeah, we were just before we got started, we were just talking about the kinks and working out the awkwardness of first time. So, I would love to just kind of start off with what is turning you on right now or lighting you up in life. It doesn't have to be sexual. It can just be about anything that's just like getting you jazzed up right now.

my God, so many things. Where do I begin? Well, one thing is I am getting turned on by the curiosity of what gives me pleasure. Pleasure, feel often also for a woman, like if you say, like, just so pleasurable. It's like, we're talking about sex and yeah, that's pleasurable too. But it could be so many different things that feel pleasurable. And so I've kind of been

Pia Leichter (01:54.222)
turned on by figuring out what pleases me, what feels pleasurable to me. When it comes to creativity or what I'm creating, when I get that tingly sense that lit up from the inside, that all sparks flying, it's really pleasurable. What that looks like currently is in my book, Welcome to the Creative Club,

Make Your Life Your Biggest Art Project. My editor said, if you're inviting people to make life their biggest art project, why don't you make this book your biggest art project? And so it's a real mix of my memoir and part guide, part gentle rebellion, and it also includes poetry. So I have like 11 poems scattered throughout, because sometimes I feel poems are able to evoke an emotion and kind of

touch you in the solar plexus in a way that sometimes the rational mind or more traditional forms of, not traditional, but different forms of writing can't quite evoke in the same way. So that's why they felt important. So the book brought a lot of people into my life. The book was transformative in a lot of different ways, but it brought

my co-creator, wonderful musician all around creative who doesn't actually like labels, I'm labeling him, musician, producer, creative, Stavont, he's great. And we kind of became friends through the book and started collaborating on the poems or he's producing a track for each poem.

my god, I love that!

Pia Leichter (03:35.31)
It's like a spoken word album. What's really cool is like the poems are taking on a life beyond me. Like it's no longer mine, it's become something new because there's like someone else's really creative interpretation of what that feels like rhythmically, you know? And then being able to have the overlay of my words and it's been such a pleasurable delight to be able to like do this project, whether it hits, it's not going to hit the top of the charts and it doesn't matter.

It just brings me, it's bringing me joy. mean, hopefully it brings someone else a little joy too. And they can be like grooving and hearing something. So that's what's turning me on.

That brought tears to my eyes, gave my body chills because I love poetry, but that's always been something more that I keep a little bit closer to my heart and your chest until recently when I did my first open mic. So I love and shared a poem and it was very alchemical because it was about, or like a tribute to a friend of mine that was murdered in February. so, yeah, but it's just like, I see grief as how much I love.

And I feel like it evokes emotion. And for me, it's like the more emotional I feel when I write is that that's going to translate or maybe come across to a potential reader. And so I love that it's like taking a life of its own and that you have the poetry in your book. And then is that going to be like an album or part of your audio book? Or have you done an audio book yet or?

Yeah, an audio book and it's lunch.

Kristin (05:04.098)
Perfect. perfect. Well then maybe they'll find out whenever this is coming out.

Exactly, on Audible. And then we're going to launch shortly after. I we're almost there. We're still figuring out arrangements and stuff. shortly after, probably on Spotify. Just the huge, and do it like that. We're still playing around with different ideas of how to do something a little special and like a pre-launch where people can download it or something. But eventually it will be in the hands of

Spotify

Yeah, for sure. And if you ever want to have a little sample, we can release maybe a little bonus or something. Oh, I'd love that. I'm just kind of like free storm, like blade storming. I love collaborating. I love that. And I love that idea. That's I recently had a book idea that I'm like, oh yes, this one I want to get lost in the sauce and not have it as structured as I did the first one. But I'm like, yeah, why don't I? I had quotes in the last one. I'm like, why don't I?

write some of the poetry for, you know, whatever element. So you've given me some inspiration there and that's dope.

Pia Leichter (06:15.416)
Absolutely. That's a great idea. I love that. I'm excited for you. Let me know how I can support you as well, because it's such a vulnerable act, a beautiful and vulnerable act to share from that place, especially that place of emotion.

your own story and to show up fully bruised, scuffed, beauty marked and all of it and share that with the world. What's made me more courageous is knowing that I'm not alone in the arena. When I can look at other people and go, my gosh, she's in the arena doing the thing, showing up kind of half naked and exposed in service of somebody else. actually we're able to high five each other. can pass you a bottle of Gator.

and maybe we co-create in some way that we never even imagined and it becomes really exciting.

And play, you mentioned play. That is like my number one thing right now is like the importance of play. Because, you know, I've been like doing so much healing and like all this stuff, but I was just chilling in friend's yesterday. I'm like, I don't know about you, but I'm fucking tired of healing. Like I'm at a point now where I just want to be and not to say that I'm not open to like insights or downloads or shifts and, you know, deaths and rebirths because God knows what my Scorpio moon is going to, you know, there's a lot of the death and rebirth and.

I'm also a Scorpio Moons, I feel you. I am, and I also, I'm also in that creative cycle. And I work with a lot of people who are having an extinction moment that they're not extinguishing. You know, sometimes I'm something that used to work, we were very successful at, but it's just not working for us anymore. I you might still be good at it, but there's something that's not lighting us up in the same way.

Pia Leichter (08:03.15)
Because it's time, it's like your intuition is telling it's time for your next creative evolution. Like what are you going to evolve into next and you take it all with you. But sometimes you've got to like honor something, have a little death ceremony, read their eulogy and move into,

Sure.

Kristin (08:20.948)
It's interesting you mentioned death ceremony too. say, feel like playfulness has been a big component of just my creative journey and stuff. And I want to ask about what your death ceremonies may look like. But I had this nudge to throw out and toss a bunch of old journals. And for me, was clinging on to some of them. I reviewed them, but I was like, you know what? I trust that the knowledge, wisdom, and insights, and learnings are within me. And I kept some of them.

But then since I cleared that space and opened in, it's like you reached out, other people have reached out. There's been an influx of inspiration, money, all kinds of different beautiful things. And so I was like, wow, that energetic clearing of space really did do. And quickly. So do you do fire ceremonies? What does your death ceremony look like when you're letting go of a past version?

I do like me a fire ceremony. I find it really witchy and powerful and just, you know, writing it down and really extinguishing it. And then also honoring it though. So I like the idea. I haven't done it yet, but I like the idea of a eulogy. Thank you for what you gave me, you brought me and how far you've taken me and for, you know, also to my past self. Like she'll always be a part of me, but it's like, hey, we're honoring like.

you can't come along for this next part of the journey in the same way, right? You know, like there's a protective driving mechanism within me, like, push, drive, go. And as I got older, was my birthday recently. And it's like, honey, she needs to be put to rest. She needs to be retired. So she's not like, I'm not gonna murder her, but she needs to, cause she served me at one point. She helped me survive that energy.

help me survive. it's not, I don't want to demonize her and say like, am I a murderer? But it's like, honey, you can like put yourself in a Corona and lay on the beach somewhere, have a beer in here and watch the ocean. Like I don't need you anymore in that way. you can, you're always going to be and maybe once in a while might fire, invite you into the scene, but probably not very often. And so you, you, you can just be, I'm just retiring. And I also like that too, cause

Kristin (10:29.39)
is

Pia Leichter (10:42.734)
Yeah. Death feels very final, but I do also like the idea of like extinguishing, like an extinction. Like it's, it's this part is extinct. So maybe it's like a retiring. And I had that conversation recently. Um, and it felt like my intuition for the first time in a long time was much louder than she was. Yeah. It was cause I went to Bali for my birthday and I gave myself three weeks.

mm.

Pia Leichter (11:09.87)
It was a bucket list. It was a big birthday. And I'm like, what is the gift? It's great pleasure. It's like after writing a book and you know, it's like, need a break. I need like a proper break. And I'm going to spend three weeks in Bali. One week alone, my husband joined for the last two weeks. I love this one week alone, like week traveling alone thing. I think it's going to be an annual gift to my pleasure, gift to myself. It's really important.

Yes!

Pia Leichter (11:39.544)
So when I was in that space, that old voice came up like, what? You're not going to do that. There are actually a few things that you might want to consider. Like maybe you should do, and like what happens if you don't do that thing? You know, that voice, you know? And my intuition went, mm-mm. No, we're not going to do anything. Nothing. We're not even going to meditate. We're not even going to do morning work. We're not even going to write a newsletter. We're not doing, we're just going to not do anything. Just to remove the feeling of having to.

Not because I don't enjoy those things I do, they're very grounding practices for me. But I needed to be in a space where I didn't have to do anything. And man, it wasn't this picturesque pleasure fest at first, because there was some tension within of like, what do you mean? But then that other voice, my intuition, it just got louder and she just wasn't having it. She's like, yeah, it's okay, it's It's gonna be fine. You'll be fine. It's gonna be, we're not gonna do it actually. And it felt very loud.

in a great way because I didn't act on that voice. So it felt like a strengthening and it's something I want to carry with me. I have to learn, like how do I carry that energy with me of feeling like I don't have to, I can still feel ease when I'm the middle one doing a lot of things. I think that's a problem because my brain is tempted to go like, I've got to figure it out. Maybe I don't figure it out because it's not here to be figured out. Maybe I just practice catching myself.

relay.

Pia Leichter (13:05.058)
No, I don't have to answer that right away. No, I can take a break. No, I can do the thing. No, I can.

Yes. Oh, for sure. You know?

This is very present for me because I just got back.

I love it, it resonates so much. I'm like, first off, happy birthday. And I love solo travel and like having, you know, it's like, what do you want to do? What do you, like leaving? And I think there's something powerful too. I was chatting with someone, cause I have a tendency to be like, okay, I have this call and then I have this list over here and all these things that I want to, I get to do actually. But at the same time, how do I allow for that spaciousness for creative insights to come through for my intuition to speak louder or.

or just be and like listening to what I wanna do in that moment versus like some fixated idea that I am clinging to that I might have wanted to do like a week, a month ago or the day prior. And so just allowing it to be more in flow versus like me trying to force it. And so I definitely feel that and like slowing down more and savoring. That brings me pleasure. And then also I just feel like it allows for

Kristin (14:13.89)
deeper connection and conversations and allows for just restorativeness, playfulness, whatever I wanna do. I love good horizontal time, but like I feel, you sometimes I can get in the scrolling thing or I'm like, no. So I just love that you referenced that and took the time for yourself too. I think it's so important. And I feel like those moments too, and those trips are like filling that creative well. That's like a one big artist date.

Because I love the morning pages, I love artist states, but, and like, the healing thing I mentioned earlier, it's like, I want to look at myself more as a miracle to explore versus a project to fix. so that's like, so that kind of feels like very like resonant with what you just voiced. And yeah, and being a human, allowing myself to be a human and like tapping into those desires and what brings pleasure and yeah.

So.

Yeah, I mean, we're here to experience like, if you ask like, what's the meaning of life, right? For me, it's to live it fully, right? And everyone will have their own definition of what that means. It's like to be a... To be really fucking alive while I'm here. felt like that needed

Yeah, well please.

Kristin (15:31.79)
Yo, yo, yeah, I love the I love the fuck. Use it freely. Give me all the fucks. Or give no fucks.

All right. Yeah, there are not many fun things in my mind these days. But yeah, so it's just, you know, to feel fucking alive and like to keep asking ourselves, because we're changing fluid beings. don't remain, we're like, nature, we're the universe, we're expansive and we're constantly changing. So asking the question again and again, that just works. Because what made you feel alive then might not be what makes you alive now, right?

And following that and trusting enough to let go of the have to's and the driving. Cause just like you said a minute ago, when you created space, things came to you. That was actually a voice I heard when I was in Bali. I heard the universe say something along the lines of like, girl, if you just like take a pause, take a beat, step, lean back, allow me to come in and work for you and with you.

You're taking up all the space. And you're so fixated and you're driving, you don't see anything else. There's no room for life to kind of dance with you. And it was a really beautiful, as you said, download that just came in. You need to give me some room over here. And I've found recently in this experiment, this life entrepreneur experiment, the more that I lean back, the more things go. Usually not what I expected.

That's great. It's not, it's never what I expected, but, but things enter the scene and it's like, so I want to create evidence that I can build successfully and create success.

Kristin (17:16.128)
Yes. Yes.

because I've created evidence that it takes, it's hard, it's also a social, cultural story, right? Like blood, and tears, 24 seven, hustle, grind, go. I've created that evidence, but I can create new evidence. And that's what I wanna be in the business of doing. Like I still show up fully, I'm not like horizontal just eating Doritos, watching, know, binging Netflix. But I'm showing up, but I'm letting go and I'm leaning, I'm learning when to lean back a bit.

and how to create more space. And as I said, it's a practice. I'm far.

I'm like, same sister. Yeah, to me, like we're, it's being that drive and that go, go, go. So it's such like a masculine energy. And for me, my masculine energy definitely served as a protector for my feminine energy for so long. And so, yeah, I think that it's like that leaning back and the ability to allow ourselves to receive and be open and to for, and be like present and aware and have the spaciousness to recognize when the universe is our spirit or source, whatever we want to call it.

is giving those opportunities and magic and miracles. But if we don't take a step back and are paying attention, then we miss what's right in front of us. And yeah, I love the surprise and delight element too. It's like it never really comes in as I think it was. And I don't want to do like that stress cortisol feeling. Like I want to be relaxed, still like creative and actively going towards my dreams and visions. And I'm giving myself permission to evolve as I do, but

Kristin (18:50.978)
Yeah, definitely just like the more breathing, leaning back. And yeah, it's totally a practice because I sometimes get like the other, was it yesterday? Yeah, yesterday. I woke up, had like, I starting to feel like a little overwhelmed with the certain things to do and I'm like, okay, I need to go to yoga. Because usually I'm like, some of that stuff's the first things to go. If I'm feeling like I need to hit the ground running, I'm like, no, I need to take care of myself.

And then I read this book, what is it? I think The Big Leap, which I love and he talks about expanding time in a way. I don't know if it's by being slower versus that rushed sense of energy. So even driving here to come record the podcast with you, was like, no, don't just, we're gonna take the time to close this and we're gonna walk, we're not gonna like.

down near hustle into the car like, we're just gonna go. And then interestingly enough, it's like traffic dies down. I gave it earlier, it's just like there's more ease. I'm like, mm. So it's interesting.

I so relate to you. mean, I'm a recovering speed queen. grew up in New York City. So I have that stitched inside me. Like I used to rush very often. It just became like a natural. And I remember when I first started my business, I caught myself rushing to go to the kitchen to make myself a cup of coffee. My own kitchen. And I was like, girl, what are you doing? This is ridiculous.

wow.

Pia Leichter (20:30.306)
You got to slow it down, like take it exactly what you described because when it's slower, we can see more, we can connect more and things have a way of, you know, things have a way of working out without me having to work it out. But I can't find that out if I'm always the one working out. You know, and I think for me, it's also about learning how to feel safe in stillness.

because I learned how to feel safe.

for sure, like movement or like the chaotic environment. I don't know about you, but my childhood was, mean, you know, there were some big T's and little T traumas. And so like, you know, I didn't realize until a certain point that that's what I felt comfortable in, whether it was relationships or environment, like, and so to actually take the time to slow down and, and whether that's, you know, I need some like physical touch to myself or like someone else or like...

just breathing, yeah.

Same, I also came from a very chaotic childhood. I've moved my whole life and it's just, I actually found myself later on repeating patterns because they were known so they felt safe. So I was the one who was starting to create the chaos.

Kristin (21:53.806)
I get that. Because it's familiar. like, It's familiar.

Until I-

Pia Leichter (22:03.562)
But it was very unconscious, right? Like it was, cause I was younger, Tuesday, I was in my twenties or whatever. And it's like, what? Everything, feels like I'm in some like soap opera drama. It's always like chaos around me. It's very entertaining at least, you know? Like you feel alive in a different way, but then it becomes like watching reruns. It's no longer fun because it's like, Hey, wait a minute. This is just a different background. doing the same thing. Oh, okay. It must not be everybody else. It's probably somebody else.

And when I got divorced, I was very tempted to move to Paris because that's what I lived in Copenhagen at the time and I still live in Copenhagen and that's what I was tempted to do because it's what I did. That's what I learned also from my mom, moving around, let's do over, what's next? Luckily at the same time before I went to Paris, I found a wonderful therapist. And I walked into her office and she was like, I told her about Paris.

This was not our first session, a couple down the line, said, yeah, you could move to Paris and you could keep moving every two, three years for the rest of your life. And I'm not judging you, right? It's not a judgment. It's just, it's a choice. Or you could choose to learn how to stay and develop a deeper relationship with a place, yourself, with other people. And right?

And what that conversation showed me more than anything, it showed me that I had a choice. When we're running on autopilot or when I was running on autopilot, I forgot that I choice is just what I did. And in that moment, I became aware that, I get to choose and actually learning to stay, that's the big new event.

Hmm.

Kristin (23:41.699)
Kristin (23:54.83)
Thank you for sharing that. I see emotions a lot of time as truth as resonance in my body. And I just resonate because I remember a story of I was leaving the healthiest relationship I'd ever been in. And partially for I was staying true to myself. But then partially I was running. I had my Nikes on. And I was listening to a book on attachment styles as I'm driving from Arizona back to Texas. And I'm like, is this one?

And then, then went on a big therapy journey. But yeah, it was like, so I was like, I get to, I get to choose to wear my slippers instead of my Nikes. And, know, versus like the gotta go. and then you also mentioned like, you know, going through a divorce and like those moments. And I know you would reference this like in a brief email exchange about like those moments of chaos or those moments of like deep pain or that can serve as the creative catalyst.

Was that a big catalyst for you or like that's prompted a lot of creativity or if you want to reference that in any way?

Sure. Well, also in my book, it felt if I'm inviting people to access and apply their innate creativity to the design of their lives, their experience, because I think that is the most creative act is designing our one experience of this life. And we're constantly creating, constantly, every moment, we're just not consciously creating. that's hence back to that.

conversation with my therapist, right? I was creating, I just wasn't conscious about it. I was creating that experience for myself.

Pia Leichter (25:40.398)
So for me to really invite people into their creativity, I felt that I wanted to share stories of how I lost and found my creative power and what that meant. And I lost my creative power when I became disconnected from myself, right? When I started drinking more or when I started, you know,

showing up like with my ex-husband was a wonderful human, but there are patterns like losing myself in another person, losing myself in a situation, kind of disconnecting from myself. So I still did creative work. I worked as a creative director and copywriter for well over like 15 years. And so in my working life, right, but that was one version of creativity and the creativity I'm talking about like big creativity where it's not only.

working as a creative director, but inviting myself and discovering that I'm actually creative, creatively I work at my life. I'm writing the script. I'm choosing the set design, costumes, the score, know, the scripts that I'm following and believing in that are guiding my behavior and shaping my experience. Like, holy shit, I'm creative. I'm like, I'm a creative director.

you

Pia Leichter (27:01.354)
All of it. And it can feel overwhelming and incredibly empowering. But I didn't have that epiphany. See, it's funny. I remember this quote and I can never remember who it's from. So maybe we could put it in the show notes. But it's like, everybody wants transformation, but nobody wants

Yeah, I just read that recently. Yeah, I'll find it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So for me, we see a lot of stories. I'm coming back to your point. We see a lot of stories about transformation and sometimes I think it looks like, went from rags to riches in 48 hours. And it's just, at least from my experience and my personal experience from working also as a coach, from working, know, just full stop. It's more of a slow cook. It's like subtle shifts.

Mm-hmm.

subtle shifts, subtle shifts, subtle shifts that then lead to a big transformation. So my divorce was a part of one of those very important, didn't feel so subtle. But it felt like a shift of like, okay, I threw an infidelity bomb at my marriage to like leave in the smoke because I wasn't conscious enough at the time to be able to, I think,

Pia Leichter (28:12.846)
have a certain degree of honesty with myself and with him. Like I felt trapped. I didn't know if I wanted kids. I know he really wanted a family. There are just so many things I couldn't really articulate because I was also disconnected from myself. So I did what I usually do. I created chaos. I just put on my Nikes and ran out the stove. And so that moment and that behavior and seeing kind of everything fall apart was what made me reach out and sort of

get help and wanting to make a shift. Starting to see it there. So that was a big part of the loss of my creative power and then moving towards rediscovering it again. And it didn't happen like that. I rebounded into a not very healthy relationship because I felt like I was drowning. I hadn't been alone in a long time, even though I've been on my own since I was 17. So it wasn't logical. It was fear-based, right? And I just grabbed on to.

the first buoy orange thing that I could see because I felt, it felt like my survival was at stake. And that's the funny thing about fear. can often not true, but it feels very true, right? And it took me a while. Then I found a job. was the creative, one of the three partners, creative director, building a studio, a creative studio. And I gave everything that I had into it because nothing else was really working. And so I just directed all my energy into that. So it took, yeah, I'm a stubborn. So it took me,

or just takes the time it takes. And then the next big shift was when I got fired. I got fired from the job that I had poured everything I had into. I learned so much from that, but that's in the full podcast episode. So when I got fired, I was kind of left standing where everything fell apart and I was looking at my, everything felt wrong. My relationship was wrong, felt wrong. I wasn't in the right place. I knew that, but I didn't have the courage to leave. Job was gone.

I was on an award visa, which meant that I had six months basically to find a job where I'd get kicked out and I'd go back to the States or wherever I'd go. And everything just felt like the universe would played 52 pickup with everything. And I was left kind of looking at the shards on the ground after the crash and not really knowing what to do. But I did have six months severance pay.

Kristin (30:27.502)
Which was at least some like some we're gonna get in and then some yeah a little breathing room, right?

there's something and I thought I could stay here and try to work this all out or you know what maybe I'm just gonna take the trans Siberian I've always wanted to go on the trans Siberian trip like across this is before everything that's happening in Russia you know China Mongolia Russia I thought I'm just gonna fucking go I'm just gonna go it's not running away because it's a trip

Right? I'm just going to go and I'm going to spend four to five weeks, four weeks I think, by myself. And I'm just, just I feel moved to do that. Got the visas, did the thing. Everything with my partner at the time was crumbling anyway. So we, we didn't even talk while I was gone. We knew it was the end, but I just needed this. Went and it was there that I had the epiphany while I was on a train hurling through Siberia staring at.

drunk Russian man in a sweating and a white shirt with like yellow armpit stains and looking at the landscape zipping by me and just sitting back in that chair and realizing, wow, I created this scene. I brought myself here. I'm actually creatively directing this, this show, the scene.

I'm able to do that for myself. I'm able to take myself out of situations. I'm able to change things. I'm able to make different decisions for myself. I don't know what it was. It was just like one of those penny drop moments where I felt alive again. I felt connected to myself again. I was reminded that of course I'm going to be okay. I mean, I was raised in New York City. You can put me anywhere. I'm going to figure it out. it reminded me that the world is big and it's beautiful and there's so much for us to experience.

Pia Leichter (32:22.67)
It reminded me of I'll be okay. Not only I'll be okay, but I was having the adventure of my life. I was rediscovering myself. I was rediscovering my creativity. I started writing again for the first time. And it just felt, it is just one of those moments where I became very aware that I'm actually in the driver's seat. Because life, especially it's an old story being like a child it comes from, right? Could feel like life is happening to me or happening to us, especially in these times, I feel. It feels like life is something that's just happening to us.

And in that moment, I felt like I was also happening to live.

I love that.

Like I was, it was like just a flip. Like I'm also, also, this is my creative power. I have the creative power. I can creatively direct the scene. I can create my experience.

Mm-hmm.

Pia Leichter (33:13.986)
that's mine and this is my choice. was like an inherent choice. Like, I do this, you know, it was, it was an amazing journey. It was a very transformative moment, but as you can see, was like things leading up until something within me was ready.

I'm gonna

and ready to be brave enough to make a change. And then I got back, broke up, sold the apartment, bought my own apartment, was on my own for a year. Celebrate, like I'm done here. And found another wonderful job working as a purpose-driven creative consultant in a creative consultancy and started rediscovering my own creativity in many ways. Because creativity is not just something we do. That's what virtual taught me and life has been teaching me.

It's a whale.

in the world. I love looking at life as like art or how can I, know, life as my muse and me being a muse for life and kind of what you referenced like you're happening to life as well like you know those interactions or I feel like we never know those those moments of connection or like brief or fleeting or long or longer or of connection you never know what insight that or inspiration that could give to someone else or

Kristin (34:27.34)
or ruffle feathers that may cause like, so, you know, it'd be a spur of change or catalyze their decision to make a braver choice. Like we never know on that side of things. And then I just love like looking at life as one big art, know, project and I get to be the artist and the muse. yeah, and I let, you know, he's talking about like making the change and choosing to be a conscious creator. I, you know, I definitely.

I felt like there's a time period in my life where I did live in a victimized state, but I had to make that choice to be in an empowered. It can feel like it's a shit ton of responsibility when you're like, I am all of those roles, director, writer, all of it. I'm curious, your insider take, what would you suggest to somebody that's like, okay, I were to make those first little baby steps to step into being a conscious creator.

because I know it can feel a little overwhelming whenever it's like, I've actually been causing this whole reality and Tues to see is happening for me and not to me. That sort of thing.

Pia Leichter (35:41.198)
It comes, it comes down to a pleasure again and also curiosity. So getting really curious about yourself. I'm like, what would bring you pleasure? What's next scene? It doesn't have to be the whole script for the entire movie and what happens at the end. That's exact. And who the joy is not knowing what happens anyway. Right. So we don't go into a movie wanting to know how it ends. So there's some of that letting go, which is

I'll come back to that. So my answer would be just the next scene.

what would you, if you were going to create the next scene, like what would it look like? Like, maybe you really love a pasta puttanesca and you have a playlist that like is gorgeous and you would just love to pair with it. And then you have this dress you haven't worn for some reason for a really long time, but you just love it and you just put it on or a suit, a Tom Ford suit, whatever you want to do. And just, it's like just creating that scene for yourself and something that makes you feel alive or that brings you a lot.

It's like, yeah, this is, yeah, this is, and having fun because I think it's also the playfulness and the fun and the levity. I like levity. It doesn't have to, was it Oscar Wilde who said life is too important to be taken seriously? You know? Like, let's play. It doesn't have to be so serious of, what's my life plan from creatively? No, no, no. Just what's the next scene and what would feel pleasurable? What would be fun?

Yeah. No, yeah.

Pia Leichter (37:14.254)
And I think for me personally, some of what you're drawn towards or what lights us up, some people have a reaction to the word fun, but whatever word lands, like play, fun, lights you up, you know, is, we're drawn to that for a reason. There's data and there's cues in that. And so it's about allowing ourselves to do those things instead of having the, you know, the judgmental mind come in or critic saying, internally saying like, no, that's why would you want to...

eat pasta pustinesca in a gown, you know, wearing red lipstick and it doesn't matter because I get to do it. That's why. So it's just allowing yourself and then receiving the moment.

It's like romanticizing. It is. Yeah, treat yourself like the main character energy.

Totally main character energy. What's interesting, because in Bali, it's like sometimes I was feeling all that and then I had to also prep, sounds really crazy maybe, but practice receiving, like really allowing myself to enjoy. Because when...

I I discussed with my therapist and it's also in the book. But when I was younger, I realized that sometimes I wouldn't allow myself to enjoy the present moment because I'd be afraid I would be vulnerable or ill-equipped to the chaos that was on its way. So I kind of didn't allow myself to release into that present joy because I felt it would leave me open or vulnerable. When I had that moment of like that epiphany with my therapist, I felt very sad for.

Kristin (38:50.861)
Mm-hmm.

Little me for a minute like and so now it's like, okay Well, how do I receive it? Like how do I just receive life and allow I'm sitting here in my gown to use that again eating pasta pizzeria Can I really like? Savor it like I look so good take a selfie of myself and really receive and I think a lot of people talk about Manifestation, but what I don't hear a lot of people talking about is how is your ability to

Because if you manifest it, but we're not able to actually take that in, we not be able to experience it or might not even recognize it.

or like you'll get a taste or like then you know or

Exactly. then be like, oh, well, that's not working for me. Yeah, hold it. So being able to hold it and to receive it. And I think that's a really important, at least for me, it's an important practice, like to really, okay, I'm here. Let me, I got a chocolate cake. I normally don't eat desserts that much. When I landed in Bali, because it was my birthday, I told all the hotels it was my birthday. So I was like, maybe free upgrade, which I did get. So was like, yay, free upgrade. And then I had this wonderful, like after 20 hours of flying or whatnot.

Pia Leichter (39:59.726)
I had this small dark chocolate cake on the coffee table, happy birthday. And it was in the middle of the night. And I just took a spoonful and it was so fucking good. It was crazy. And I just allowed myself to really taste and receive and also eat messy, like I'm sure there's chocolate all over my, just like lick the spoon, really, know.

This is so I had to cut the cake in half, because it was getting that serious. I just so the pleasure of the taste and just sitting in a robe by myself in Ubud having the pleasure of the moment. And I felt like that was like the first little act of rebellion is eating half the cake and saying, yes, I fucking can. And I am going to receive it. And I think.

That's a beautiful practice to remember to receive the moments we're in, the things that are given to us rather than just, okay, what's next? Or, okay, I did that great, that came to me. I don't, it's not a judgment thing. think often in our culture, it's like Western culture, at least it's like, what's next? Okay. So when then you get the thing, but what you're really after is a thing. And then it's like, okay, well, what's, what's the next thing? Cause that didn't really satisfy me. Cause it's not about the thing actually. And so learning.

to be here now and to receive now without having to grasp or reach or yearn for the next thing is,

that I mean, yes, because you're like, so your stories have like spurred so many different like, little threads. And like, you know, I feel like the the scene that you painted, like being in the dress and like, or the eating of the cake, like, you know, it's like following those threads and moments. And what came up for me is like those the permission to be messy and like ravenous in certain moments or like, like really savoring the pleasure of that and

Kristin (41:55.212)
you had mentioned like always thinking ahead or like being, you know, the next thing. And I just had a friend tell me, said, Christian, you've done like this and this and this and this. I was like, you know what, I should probably celebrate those things a little bit more. And I also was like, you know, some of that came from a place of not feeling good enough, like I had to earn or, you know, get some kind of level of validation or success to be loved or accepted and that sort of thing too.

And I had an image of little me come up as you're speaking. And I am so grateful that I grew up with like barely any TV. I was like a voracious reader, lived in my imagination. And I think that like spurred a love of storytelling at a very young age. But it was also now like looking back through therapy and just other self-reflection moments, I was like, I didn't really feel safe in like the younger environment. I was.

going into my imaginative play states or getting lost in a book or creating because it's like that environment built a little unsettling or chaotic. And so, yeah, being able to be present, whether or not chaos is coming down the road is like, I'd love that you reference that.

And it just like makes me wanna sense like just so much love to that little home haircut tomboy. And it kind of reminds me of what you said too about your past self, about the dying. I kind of had this visualization not too long ago and a meditation and I was like holding hands with my past self and my future self. I was like, we're going into this together. I'm like, thank you.

And thank you, and being open to receiving the message and insights from my future self, because I feel like sometimes those creative desires, I know for me, the desire to write a book or a longing definitely felt like a whisper from my future self. Like, this is a pivotal journey that you're gonna go on. I procrastinated for a long time, but until I actually did this, until the pain of not doing the thing finally outweighed.

Kristin (44:06.798)
the work that it was gonna take to do it, or the creative journey. It was just so powerful. But I love that imagery. And you had mentioned just about something about letting go and being able to be present despite the chaos that's coming. I just wanted to reference what came up for me in your share. I feel like we're kind of in spirits in a lot of ways.

I feel that too. And it's interesting because what you mentioned about, you know, little you, tomboy, getting lost in the world of books and stories and feeling safe in those created spaces, right? I also experienced that. And I just wanted to offer a perspective and maybe it's already, you're already wearing those glasses, but it's, when I look back, it's like everything we've gone through.

you know, the shit and the sunshine, it brings us to who we are today. you know, there's sometimes a golden nugget, you know, it's just, we just don't see it right away because it's there. don't see it. But it's like, for me, that gave you a gift, the gift of being able to craft stories and create worlds and invite people into them and go into other worlds.

Yeah.

Pia Leichter (45:28.494)
I mean, is the creativity fuel, right? Like it just fueled you. And I feel when I look back, that's how I feel also for myself, that that imagination, that ability to create these worlds ended up being a gift for me, even though it took going through something that was challenging and chaotic and difficult. And I feel that perspective helps when there's new shit that I step in or that comes my way. It's like, well, what is this teaching me?

What is this giving me? It's actually an interesting question. Like, oh, what's here for me in this? Like feeling less defined by it or reactive to it and just, okay, that's here or that didn't work out. Maybe there's a reason for that. Maybe, you know, that lovely line, rejection is actually redirection. Like, fantastic. So I think perspective matters. And once we look at our past and

know, the bruises and the beauty marks and we can say, those bruises, wow, they really helped me become who I am. They made me into the person I am today. And when we learn to like fall in love with ourselves a bit more every day, it's like, can actually say thank you. Even thank you even for those experiences. And same with me, like I went to seven different elementary schools and high schools. I think it was eight actually. And even though it was really, really difficult,

also gave me gifts. It gave me the gift of adaptability. It gave me the gift of being able to connect with people and quite deeply in a short amount of time. It also taught me how to let go sometimes. There's always a flip side, like those records, like those old singles, A and B side. The B was always the shitty song and the A was the top hit. I feel like that's like with everything. The gift, there's always a B side. So the B side is not learning how to stay.

I love that visual too. I'm like flipping the track. I used to make my own mix tapes and we can make your own mix tapes. And I love that too. Like sometimes, thank you for like using that language to describe it and position it. Sometimes when I'm in the shit today, I'm like, I have a firm belief that like all things work out for good for me, even if I can't see it in that moment. So sometimes I'm like, don't know how this is working out for me yet.

Pia Leichter (47:22.958)
There's always some-

Pia Leichter (47:43.63)
me too.

Kristin (47:47.106)
But I trust that it is and I trust that I will find or assign the meaning that will best serve me. It's coming. But maybe I just got to feel the mess and release it and just go through it. And then, yeah, I love the questions like, what is this here to teach me? And light it up. had a very...

an interesting journey with my stepdad. He opened up worlds for me and was very paradigm shifting, showed religion on a map for me and told me, he's like, oh, you likely only believe what you grew up around. And when I prompted why we weren't going to church anymore, was like, am I going to hell? And it was color coded by different regions. And I was like, well, if this is true for religion, what else is it true for? Everything. It's a big shift for a junior high, high schooler to have.

And then they sat me down and made me watch The Secret before I went off to college. so had that experience. But then later on, whenever they divorced, I wanted to keep the relationship with him. But he came on to me while I was sleeping and kind of sexually abused me in the middle of the night one time. I say all this though, because after writing my book and I wrote it with the perspective of him being alive and maybe reading it one day. I finished the first round of edits. This was August, 2020.

I found out he died and I had been working on forgiveness. I had communicated my forgiveness to him and forgiving myself for feeling naive, all the things. But I was also reading a book called Many Lives, Many Masters in that moment. And so once my mom told me that he had died, it was like this interesting release energetically that I felt. And I was like, my God, I was like, he shaped my life in different ways, in the beautiful.

and in like the more, you know, traumatic and like both of those. So that through the expression of me, through my book, it would have the highest healing of all. And I truly believe like we made an agreement before we came into this lifetime for him to impact my life in these, you know, positive and negative ways so that if I choose to see it through that lens of all of it working for me, then I can alchemize it. It can be a gift to myself, gift to the world and like become, you know,

Kristin (50:05.166)
be a part of my conscious creator journey. And so it was just like a very like, wow. And so then I rolled back, had to go back and then, know, heal and, you know, feel all the feels and, you know, like anger for like him not being able to read the words or like that attachment that I felt to that. So it was just a very like interesting journey that I think like references a lot of the like the moments and key points that you've touched on and spoken about too.

Yeah, I just got the chills when you spoke about alchemizing. That's kind of how my body, said your body, said like the emotions for you. And for me, it's like, and I was in my head like full chills because being courageous enough to share that story and alchemize the pain into something that can move, help other people to turn that into art is so powerful.

and such a beautiful gift because it models it for other people and also your perspective through your work, but through that perspective. Like I'm not a victim that happened to me and it's fucking shit, but I'm taking it and I'm going to use it as fertilizer for these people.

Yes, I'm like, what flowers do I to grow? So what seeds am I planting with that fertilizer? I can't just like cuss at the weeds and roses if I want sunflowers. Right.

Yeah, or then you'll just be sitting with seeds in your pocket looking at a bag of dirt thinking, there is dirt in your life. All you gotta do is just take the seeds and put them into the ground and then use that shit. Use that shit! And I'm not saying it's easy, it's not. It's not. But I think when you're on your path and you're doing what feels liberating for your liberation and for other people's,

Kristin (51:49.496)
Yes

Pia Leichter (52:06.512)
deeply fulfilling.

You know, I think I started out with that writing journey thinking I was writing it mainly for other people. I was like, you know, or like people like lost in the sauce or like anyone in that loss pain or chaos moment. And then like through the process of I was like, holy shit, know, like typing, crying. I'm sure you've had like similar experiences through the journey of writing, especially, you know, personal stories and like crafting like different insights of wisdom, like light bulb moment. Oh, dots connecting.

And then I'm like, whoa, like came out the other side. was like, wow, I don't even know like what I just experienced. But because it was so felt, I didn't realize exactly how pivotal it'd be for like my healing journey, for my human journey, for all of the things, right?

Isn't that great? This is, I had the same experience, similar experience. Creativity is transformative on so many levels and owning your story and rewriting it. Because you lived it, but now you're rewriting it through the eyes of the woman you are today. When I looked, I wrote one chapter that was just memoir alone and it was about my divorce. My editor said, you can't mention your divorce and not talk about it.

They just can't, do I really have to? And of course, in service of the book and the reader. And I didn't realize how transformative the whole act of rewriting and looking at my life and key points through the eyes of the woman I am today, except for that chapter my editor pointed out. The way you're writing about yourself in that moment and what happened doesn't sound like the woman I know today or the woman that is.

Pia Leichter (53:58.542)
writing the rest of the book, it sounds like you're stuck in an old perspective. A lot of guilt and shame about what I did. And she said to me, you know, yes, the infidelity, okay? Maybe there was a part of you that knew you had to go, you had to get out of the situation and you just didn't know how, so you did what you could, but you still listen to yourself. Where's the compassion? Where is the consciousness? And I cried.

yourself

Pia Leichter (54:27.254)
I want to cry now. I know. It's like, how did I? my God, I've been looking at myself so harshly. And I'm not saying that I'm scot-free and I take responsibility, but it was bigger than that. And I wasn't looking at myself through the eyes of a more evolved woman, a compassionate woman I am today, but it took me to write about it and for someone to be able to see me in it. Sometimes it's hard to see ourselves, right? Like, what? Am I still there?

Yes, I'm like an

Pia Leichter (54:56.396)
And then I got to rewrite it. And that was just.

Yeah, I think that her like nudge or be the witness and observer to you and like prompt those questions and insight or like recognize the difference in the various chapters or, you know, give you the opportunity to like go back and rewrite it. That's another thing too, is like rewriting it in the repetition too, because we're like combing through it when in the editing phase, but like it helps our subconscious reprogram.

like those stories that we used to tell ourselves and step into the ones that we are on the other side of the project. And then a friend of mine said something, he's like, sometimes I like to go back to old books I've visited or read or written or, you know, works of art in general. He's like, but he was particularly talking about books and stories like, because as I change, the words on the page change. And it's like, that's interesting. Like, so as we change and evolve, the words that we've written may change and evolve or land differently, and we also have the power.

to go back and rewrite all of that for this serves us best and why not? We have that ability.

Exactly. I think it's something anyone can do. You don't have to be a published author to do that. using personal narrative as like healing transformation, whatever the words, is really powerful. Or reclamation. Let's use that word instead. Like a reclamation of my story, myself. I get to choose how I see my life. I get to choose how I see my circumstances. That's my creative choice.

Kristin (56:02.264)
Yes.

Pia Leichter (56:28.866)
and I get to write about it. I get to re-script it. And I remember reading, think it was in Body Keeps the Score, where he mentioned the very healing practice of theater and being able to recreate scenes that were traumatic in your life and like choose differently on stage. you know? And how healing that was, because the body is like going through the motions, you're being witnessed, you're in community.

and you're able to choose and to choose the scene differently.

What a powerful modality to create or offer to. I'm like, that's so powerful. I'm like, how can I play that out? And bringing in play again and get to choose. I know it can be deeply vulnerable moments, but yeah, how beautiful. And you said reclamation. And what came up for me is that act of reclamation or it is an act of rebellion.

and like all those other like little soft ways of rebellion. I'm like, we have one minute left. I'm like, now like the little signs on the clock like tick down and like, I just want to thank you for coming on and offering all your insight and gifts and like the little ways that we can be rebellious and reclaim our creativity and ourself and our personal narratives and the stories and the lives that we want to live. I'm going to put all of your stuff in the show notes, but I'm going to give you some space here to just drop anything that you want to add to.

Okay, just it feels like such a abrupt. It's like, wait. Like you're kicking me out of bed. You just climaxed. No, just teasing. Well, yeah, I just want to add and I know we're about to end. I want to respect your time, but I'm going to say I do think rebellion is really important here in reclamation and in also creativity because choosing to live a creative life.

Kristin (58:01.71)
I might have to have it back.

Kristin (58:10.506)
I know.

Pia Leichter (58:27.872)
Choosing to make conscious creative decisions about how you move what you create How you do this thing called life is going to be different Because it's There's no one out there like you closer you get to who you are to your unique signature and energy signature frequency self expression the more creative because creativity in essence is Original right? It's a novel

way of solving everyday challenges that could be delightful and useful, but it's novel. There is an originality to it. There are many different versions of creativity. Creativity is not something that is parroted or repeated or done before, whether it's different ways of bringing things together or whether it's creating something new. But what makes it unique is you. And so by definition, it is going to be unique.

Like you have a unique, you have a unique laboratory signature and so it's going to be different.

And that's how you know.

Pia Leichter (59:32.318)
Exactly. And I think that can be difficult because we look to other people, oh, well, what's that person did that thing and was really successful and I'm doing something else. And it's like, yeah, that worked for them. That might not work for you because it's not yours, it's theirs. So doing the work of figuring out what works for you, what moves you, what pleases you, what desires you have, your desires are yours for a reason. What you are yearning to create in the world.

make real in your world requires a rebellious streak and some vision tendencies. You know, to say like, that's cool. You do you, that's nice. You can celebrate everybody else's lovely out, learn different things, of course, from different people, I'm going to do it my way and I'm going to trust myself to do and to create whatever it is I'm moved to and to trust that it will look different because it's supposed to.

because it's mine.

Thank you. I think that's a beautiful note to hand on. If I had a mic in my hand, I would drop it, but I won't drop this one because it's a rental. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure. Speaking of pleasure, just going full circle from how we started, it's been an absolute pleasure spending this time with you and connecting so openly. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, sister. Thank you.