67. Brainwaves & Breakthroughs: Dr. Ron Nathanson Unlocks the Brain’s Potential with Neurofeedback & Psychedelics

How can we heal from the traumas of our past? 

In this eye-opening conversation, Dr. Ron Nathanson discusses his approach to holistic health, combining chiropractic care, neurofeedback, and emotional release techniques. He reflects on the lasting effects of generational trauma, the body’s innate wisdom, and the healing potential of psychedelics. Dr. Nathanson also shares profound lessons from his ayahuasca experiences and emphasizes the importance of self-love, gratitude, and forgiveness. 

Tune in to discover how embracing suffering can unlock deeper healing and transformation.

Connect with Dr. Ron Nathanson:
Instagram: dr._ron_nathanson_trans4m8tion

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Transcript

Kristin (00:00)
I love kind of what we've outlined to chat about today and allow it to go wherever it goes.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (00:04)
Well, I appreciate

being here today. I remember, you I got to read your book few, about a year ago when my friend introduced me about you, who you were. And I read your book and I was like, I like this person. I don't even know who she is. I want to get to meet her. And, and it was like, your energy was so palpable through the book. I was like, I don't know who this person, and my friend kept talking about you. He's Mike Michael. He kept saying what an amazing human being you were. And I was like, I got to get to meet Chris, you know, Chris and I have to meet her.

Kristin (00:16)
I I know!

Mm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (00:31)
The bird woman I call you.

Kristin (00:32)
Yeah,

birdie. So I want to dive in and talk about a little bit to shift gears because I know we may have a little time crunch out at a certain time. How you found the world of chiropractic care, how you got started, your journey into it. Yeah.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (00:34)
That's for sure. Looking forward to it.

I said, that's a fun story.

August 25th, 1994, I got hit by a car on a bicycle. I broke my hip, broke my shoulder, split open my face. You see that nice scar there? And I found myself laying in bed for six weeks, like peeing in a bedpan, you know, that kind of fun stuff. Hooked on Percocets and really was not doing well. And my mom's friend was starting to date a chiropractor. And she said, hey, you need to go see my friend Bill. I was like,

Kristin (00:57)
Hmm.

Bye.

Mmm!

Dr. Ron Nathanson (01:14)
Chiropractor like I had no idea about chiropractic or understanding of it at all So I went to this guy on a Saturday morning He took an x-ray this way took an x-ray this way and then he took one for the top of my head And I'm like what is this all about right and then he walks in the room starts drawing lines all over the place He says turn on your right side walks up to me boom hits my neck and walks out of the room I'm like what was that I? Had no idea right so

Kristin (01:40)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (01:41)
I end up going home, turning on a college football game, next thing I know, I wake up at six o'clock in the morning. This was like one or two in the afternoon. Now it's six o'clock in the morning and I'm sleeping on a couch in my mom's house. And I said to her, hey, you know, why'd you let me sleep in my clothes? She goes, that's the first time you've slept in six weeks without Percocets.

Kristin (01:59)
Hmm.

Mmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (02:03)
I was a wake-up call went back got adjusted again on Monday guy puts me on my side slams my neck boom walks out of the room What the hell was that didn't explain anything to me? have no idea I said next time I come in on Wednesday And you know I'm following what the lawyer wants me to do because I had an accident I Walk in and he goes to adjust me said no you need to tell me what you're doing is I don't got time I got patients to go I said

Kristin (02:04)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (02:29)
Listen, I need to know what you're doing to me. Every time I go home, I fall asleep for like 12 to 16 hours. He says to me, good, that means your body's healing. That was the first time I even heard the word healing and understood it besides pills and potions and lotions. I grew up with a grandfather who was a pharmacist and that's a whole other story. And like, you know, with that world, I was raised in the medicine world. My sister was antibiotic to death. You know, the poor girl had ear infections as a kid.

Kristin (02:34)
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Mmm. wow.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (02:57)
Had she gone to a chiropractor, she probably never had those ear infections. Long story short, that's how I got to chiropractic, became a chiropractor. And then in the end of my chiropractic schooling, I learned about this technique called network spinal analysis under a guy named Dr. Donald Epstein. And it was more of an emotional release technique. And I was starting to learn about guys like Bruce Lipton, and I started to see people like Dr. Joe Dispenza was showing up at campus. I actually saw these guys before they were famous.

Kristin (03:00)
Mmm.

Mmm.

Mmm.

Wow.

I know your story reminds me of Dr. Joe's a little bit.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (03:26)
but they were Yeah, well this is kind of similar, you know,

and then in 2000, let's see, I guess it was 2006, 2007, my daughter gets run over by a car, her pelvis, thank you God she didn't die, she should have been, in all intents and purposes, a miracle took place. She had a small fracture in her pelvis and she had a Lexus SUV on her body.

Kristin (03:40)
Wow.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (03:52)
her over not once but twice. I don't want to get into too much of the details but within five years of her having this she started getting like OCD type symptoms and we started looking at different ways to help her and one of them was through neurofeedback it happened to be and also was looking to find some sort of modality for my practice but here it was God put this in my hands and started doing neurofeedback then I started really getting into the idea of

Kristin (04:00)
Hmm.

Mm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (04:17)
trauma in the body. You know, Vanderkot wrote a book called The Body Keeps the Score. And then there was another book, Molecules of Emotion by Candice Pertin. All these different people were coming out and starting to talk about trauma and how it impacts our body, it impacts our brain. As a chiropractor, I knew that when I would adjust people, like I can get them out of pain, but the emotional pain would still be there. And I can get them out of pain and I can help them.

Kristin (04:19)
Okay.

of running.

Mmm.

Mmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (04:44)
you know, walk better. All this is great stuff, but on a level to a certain level I can go. When we were in chiropractic school, they promised you the world, said chiropractic can heal anything, which you know, a nervous system free of interference is gonna be a lot better than one that's interfered. But miracles, I saw miracles, but nothing like I was promised. But when I started doing neurofeedback, when I started doing network spinal analysis, I started to see miracles, miracles. And then,

Kristin (05:04)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (05:11)
You know, you start to look at other functions, people walking in and I noticed every patient of mine is walking in with a thyroid problem. All these women are on Synthroid and I'm like, this is weird. And so, you know, when it started going to neurofeedback seminars, they're talking about, well, you might want to take this to another level. You might want to learn some functional medicine. So we started looking into functional medicine and there's, I can go into so many different topics right now.

Kristin (05:17)
Mmm.

Mmm.

Yeah, no, I love that it's like a holistic approach to healing. Like mind, body, spirit, energy.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (05:37)
Right, well, first of

all, I have a big rule. If I can get someone off drugs, that's a win. That's like, you know, some people feel good when they win the Super Bowl. Some people feel good when they win an Oscar or a Tony. I'm not gonna win any awards for what I do, but I win awards by changing people's lives. And I don't change people's lives. Let me just be straight with this. I get to move bones and I get to watch people utilize the technology we use, but their body heals themselves. And there's a power within us we have to first acknowledge

Kristin (05:44)
Hmm.

Hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (06:07)
There's a healing power within all of us. We call this inborn intelligence innate. I'll call it God, whatever you want to call it. That intelligence is what tells every cell in your body what to do from your brain down to your every cell in your body. Right? You have an afferent and efferent nerve that goes from and to the body, from the brain to the cells. So when trauma gets caught in our body and it gets stuck in our body, it causes all kinds of other issues. Like the brain starts to think it's under attack.

Kristin (06:09)
I'm your man.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (06:33)
or a fight or flight response. You start to see the amygdala will get caught up in, that's the reptilian brain. And what happens with the reptilian brain is that we see that a person will get feeling like they're always in a fight or flight response. So, and I see this all the time in my practice, you'll see people come in here, they think it's anxiety, it is anxiety symptoms, but really what's happening is their brain is in a fight or flight response and they can't get out of it, right?

Kristin (06:33)
Thank you.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (07:00)
And

so what things can you do? Well, there's so many different approaches. Breathing is one. Yoga is such a strong place to start. Why? Because once we start to breathe and we activate the phrenic nerve, what ends up happening is in the vagus nerve, we start to calm the body down. And that's a temporary thing until then trauma kicks back in. Now trauma, there are three types of trauma. We have chemical trauma, we have emotional trauma, we have physical trauma. Physical trauma,

Kristin (07:20)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (07:28)
will be like stored in the repair of the body. So we see that that's easy to fix physical trauma. You know, as long as it's not gone too far gone, the body heals itself that way. Chemical trauma, we change the body's chemistry through nutrition, through supplementation, through detox. That's one way to get rid of chemical trauma. But emotional trauma is one that doesn't go away so quick and so easily. And there's a reason. Emotional trauma sticks around because of the story we keep telling ourselves.

Kristin (07:38)
Mm-hmm

Mmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (07:57)
So

I like psychotherapy, I think it's important, but I don't think psychotherapy is the only thing you can do to get rid of trauma. I think psychotherapy is really good to get rid of the story, to change the story, or to accept the story.

Kristin (08:03)
Correct. I agree.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (08:12)
That trauma still in the body you get used to that trauma

Kristin (08:15)
Yeah,

for sure. Like I remember like, okay, I had done so much like reframing or rerouting of the narratives that I had told myself, but then there were still the element until I learned like the different emotional release techniques or like different things to move it out of my body. I didn't know. I was like, why am I still like having some of these, you know, symptoms or something? And so it's really interesting too. I didn't even look at trauma as like those three separate entities or category. So I like how you broke that down.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (08:42)
But one of the therapies that I've seen great results in is a somatic respiratory integration type of technology. It's called core energetics. And so when an emotion comes up, you go beat the pants off of something and you get it out of your body. You work it out to the point until you cry it out, scream it out, yell it out, and get it out.

Kristin (08:46)
Mm-hmm.

Mm. Mm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I just the other day, yesterday, I did a breathwork session because I'm doing this like 30 day challenge thing and I did a breathwork and all of a sudden I just like started crying and I and it was I feel like it was connected to recent grief but I don't have to know the story. It was just the release of some kind of pent up.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (09:12)
wasn't it?

Well,

what if I tell you that grief doesn't matter where it comes from? might not even be yours in the first place. It might be your mom's, it might be your grandmother's, it could be your grandfather's. See, here's the thing. I don't know if you know the famous study that was done in epigenetics back around 2010. They took rats and they loved the smell of cherry blossoms. And what they did was they started to give these rats, every time they come near cherry blossoms, an electric shock.

Kristin (09:26)
Yeah, I don't have to know. Yeah, yeah. yeah.

Mm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (09:49)
Eventually

the rats don't want to go near the electricity or the shock or the smell. So it creates a trauma. They can measure the stress response in the rat every time it smells the cherry blossoms. Now they breed these rats after they don't go near cherry blossoms anymore. Two, three generations, five generations down. And what they do then is they see that the rats, actually, their grandchildren, great grandchildren also detect trauma.

Kristin (10:00)
Mmm, wow.

Wow.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (10:18)
when

they smell the cherry blossoms. immediately causing anxiety. So there was an old saying in the Bible that said, hey, the sins of your fathers will be passed for generations. This is very common. I work in New York and I've worked with a lot of Hasidic Jews and people who are Holocaust survivors of two, three generations. And these people have trauma and real trauma in their bodies. Not because I think so, because their brain maps say so.

Kristin (10:22)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (10:46)
Right? And so when we start to look at all these things that happen to people, it's an accumulation like an onion, right? You have physical trauma. You've had car accidents. You fall and you broken bones. You've done things physically trauma. Emotional trauma goes into anything. Even misconceptions of things you think were real might not even be real. And they say that the most traumatic thing, something at the age of four or five years of age, that's when we start to see trauma.

Kristin (11:07)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (11:14)
hit us when we wake up out of the dream state of being a child. And we wake up to the world's not a safe place and that we're not as good as we thought we were. Something in that little voice starts to kick in our head, that reptilian voice that keeps kicking in to say, I'm not good enough, I'm not smart enough, I'm not good looking enough. All these things that kick in and now you're gonna spend the rest of your life trying to heal this.

Kristin (11:28)
Mm-hmm.

Thank you.

Yeah, it's interesting.

It's so interesting. Yeah, I read something. I don't know if it was in the Body Keeps the Score or some other one about how, I'm an egg in my mom while she's in the stomach of my grandmother. So I'm like, and then how many does that go back?

Dr. Ron Nathanson (11:51)
Right?

even but even still the DNA gets programmed right so programming our DNA is being programmed from the person who gave us birth you're getting your mom's your mom's DNA and your dad's DNA now unfortunately their DNA and you can change DNA so let's be let's be understanding of something also you're not a fixed condition right if that was the case if you had DNA that said you would have a heart disease

and you took care yourself and you exercised and you ate right, the probability of heart disease is not going to happen. You might be prone to it, but you're most likely to prevent it. A lot of the things that we get sick from are preventable. We're not impacted by our genes from what I understand. And there's all kinds of studies out there. Like there's a guy named Dr. Joe McCord, who in the world of free radical biology, he was a genius. He created some products that actually

slow down the aging process, right? That actually stop aging in our body. Aging is just free radicals wrapping around our DNA and destroying our DNA. So we can utilize certain nutrients and herbs to heal the brain and heal the body as well. And a lot of people think supplements are the answer. There's a lot of bad research out there about supplements.

Kristin (13:08)
And then also if you don't test for what you're deficient in, how are you just guessing or random, I read that this is good. Let me take some of this.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (13:16)
Well that's and unfortunately

a lot of people don't realize toxicity of too much vitamins also in the body like we can put too much something in our body and cause problems that there's something that we don't and on top of that half these Vitamin companies they're fraudulent right they're not they're not monitored so the FDA does not watch and see what they put in this stuff

Kristin (13:21)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (13:38)
So they could put sawdust in there and tell you it's 500 milligrams of vitamin C. You take it thinking you're getting 500 milligrams of vitamin C. You're not getting 500 milligrams of vitamin C. Consumer Reports did a whole thing around vitamins and showed that most vitamin companies do not put in what they say they do. And I'm gonna say this, vitamins are adding to our bodies what we don't have in our food.

Kristin (13:47)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (13:59)
the truth is the majority of food we eat if you're eating healthy you'll get the majority stuff you're not going get vitamin D you need to supplement with that sunlight is your best thing but you know unfortunately there are minerals that were depleted in electrolytes the more you exercise so simple things like table salt not table salt I'm sorry like ocean salt sea salt can be really good for you

Kristin (14:14)
Yeah.

Yeah.

love put, I put, started putting Celtic salt in my coffee because it's so good because it just gives it, well, I've used like a little Stevia chocolate drop, a little Celtic sea salt and then kind of make this like savory sweet thing. I'm like, I don't know, I just love it and it satisfies my savory sweet thing. So I want to, I want to ask you a couple of clarifying questions too, like

Dr. Ron Nathanson (14:23)
Your coffee now that's an interesting

Well, that's good because coffee depletes that stuff right out of your body. So it's a perfect mix as it goes in, it goes out. That's a great idea.

Kristin (14:46)
Give me like the dummies version book of like what neurofeedback is and is that what brain mapping is?

Dr. Ron Nathanson (14:51)
Well, brain mapping is first telling us what parts of the brain are not effective, what's not working, right? So we're looking at areas of the brain. So we're looking at three major things. We're looking first at the magnitude of the brain, how much energy is the brain using? How peaks are the waves of your brain? So big waves tend to be someone with a tension deficit. So anxiety is gonna be someone very fast brain waves, right?

Kristin (14:56)
Okay. Okay.

Okay.

Mmm. Mmm.

Mmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (15:16)
Then we're look at the left to right side of the brain. We're gonna see the symmetry. And when we see a dominant symmetry, we can tell if a person's depressed or if they have anxiety. And then we're gonna look at their dominant brainwave pattern. If they get stuck in a delta brainwave pattern, most likely they've had a head trauma or some sort of concussion, traumatic brain injury. They might also have some metabolic issues as well. Not metabolic, but more like metals, heavy metals and extra toxicity in the body.

Kristin (15:24)
Mmm. Mmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (15:43)
So that will cause brainwaves to be very slow. Now the next set of brainwaves that we get are theta brainwaves. The theta brainwaves are what people know of for meditative states and everybody wants to get into like an alpha theta state and that's great. But if you're stuck in a theta brainwave and you can't regulate out of it, you're gonna be an attention deficit kind of person, an ADD ADHD person.

Kristin (15:51)
Yeah.

Mmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (16:04)
If you have high alpha brain waves, most likely you have a metabolic issue, you're have mitochondrial issues in the cell, you're gonna have more prone to depression, more leaky gut issues, you're gonna see things that are, you're gonna feel depressed. And depression is a multi-layer thing, know, besides the emotions, you also will have trauma to the gut, you know, lack of, the collagen is something that's really powerful for healing the gut.

But you also have no prebiotics or probiotics, so the floor of your digestion starts to go. And that goes right back to that book I told you, Molecules of Emotion with Candace Pert.

Kristin (16:41)
wrote it down so I can read it.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (16:43)
great

book. I met her. She was amazing woman. then there's beta brainwaves. Beta brainwaves are like a fight or flight response. Anxiety. You're not going to sleep when you have high beta brainwaves. Well, know, with women with hormones, it's also a factor as well. Women, by their hormones, are affected. And I do believe, in all honesty, that our wonderful country

Kristin (16:51)
I'm familiar with those waves.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (17:07)
I'm hoping Robert Kennedy does something good here because I think that they're truly messing with us and our hormones and whatnot. We don't know what they're spraying up in the sky. They don't know what we're putting in our drinking water. God forbid you got the vaccine during the COVID pandemic. Only knows what they were putting in that. I mean, it's continuous. And unfortunately, we live in a society that if you speak out, you're a heretic. Yeah, you're a heretic.

Kristin (17:15)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

You're blacklisted. Yeah. Yeah. I was so

afraid to come out that I didn't get the vaccine during it because I was like, oh, wow. If I share this information, I'm going to be suddenly like cast out of society. And, you know, and I think as communal tribal beings, like we have that innate, you know, or innate. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (17:48)
Well, their programming is pretty strong. I acknowledge you for not doing it, because that took a lot,

because the majority of people were scared out of their minds. You turn on the news and you get told that 30,000 people died today of COVID or whatever the numbers were. How many more people every day and they just keep banging those war drums. And now they're gonna have someone come on TV and go, you're not coming out of your home until you get this vaccine.

Kristin (17:58)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (18:12)
scares people. So people want their freedom thinking if they get this vaccine, they're going to be able to go out there in the world and live their lives. What we forget though is when you inject something into the bloodstream, right? That's the fastest way to damage the body. Like think about it. You know, if you were to smoke crack, right? It goes directly into your bloodstream. If you inject heroin, it goes directly into the bloodstream. If you snort cocaine or what not,

Kristin (18:17)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (18:38)
reason I'm using drugs is because this is what people understand. You snort cocaine, it gets diluted in your mucous membrane and then gets into the stream. If you take something that you eat and it affects your body, it slowly affects the body. So we can learn things about drugs. not saying I advocate for using heavy drugs, but anything goes directly into the bloodstream, it's going to work very fast, it's going pass the innate intelligence body's defense mechanisms.

Kristin (19:04)
Hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (19:05)
right away that's a dangerous thing. If you were to catch, let's say, COVID, right? Your immune system is supposed to look at it, takes in these T cells, mimics those things, and next time it shows up in the body, it deletes them. It like fights it off immediately. But when you put in something directly into the body, the body can't recognize that immediately. It's under attack. The body goes into this complete attack mode.

protect itself. That's just the innate intelligence of the body. Something foreign doesn't belong. The body doesn't go, well, welcome to the house. It's got to check it out, right? That's why we have T cells, why our intelligence and our body is so smart. During the pandemic, and I can't believe we went down this road, but we will, all logic went out the road, out the window. Viruses went from being something that was brought to you through spit or urine or poop or, you know, bodily fluids, blood.

Kristin (19:37)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (19:56)
And they like AIDS during the 80s, you couldn't get AIDS from kissing somebody, but you could from intercourse and blood, right? And of course, if you sprayed AIDS on the sidewalk, no one was gonna get it. If it was on the countertop, no one was gonna get it. Now all of a sudden people are pouring bleach on their food because they believe that a virus can last 15 hours out of a host. No, it can't, never could, never will.

Kristin (20:03)
Mm-hmm.

Mmmmm

Yeah.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (20:22)
So that was garbage, right? There was so much misinformation being said during the pandemic to scare people.

Kristin (20:24)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah,

I kind of definitely felt that it was, I don't know, I just leaned into my woman's intuition. I was like, there's just something that feels off here. I don't know if I trust this. I'm gonna turn off the news. Yeah, I'm like, I'm not gonna turn, I'm gonna turn off the news. And then I kind of subscribed to the fact that, you know, my body, my choice across the board. So I'm like, whether it's, you know, you know, I'm like, what I put into my body is like my say so. And so I also love my freedom. So, you know, I'm in.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (20:37)
Well, I'm not a woman.

Amen.

Yeah, well,

we did a lot of hiking and it was fun during the pandemic to watch people as we were. When I first started going out hiking, no one was out there. It was great. I'd go hiking for hours, not see a soul. Then all of sudden people started coming out onto the mountain and I'm seeing them hiking with a mask on and I'm like, are you worried that if you breathe out into the big open valley that you look down into, you might catch this pandemic.

Kristin (20:55)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

me.

Hmm.

The cleaner air now with less air travel and all the other things. You know, I do want to touch on that. I think that we tend to like see it as so polarized, but at the core of it, though, it's people choosing the best decision that they thought was going to keep them healthy. so whether, you know, I chose not to, you chose not to, but some people, you know, got the vaccine because they thought it was going to keep them healthy, you know, that kind of thing. So it's like,

Dr. Ron Nathanson (21:21)
Yeah, the whole.

Kristin (21:43)
kind of like that same, you know.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (21:43)
Well, I think what really happened, Kristen,

if you really want to get straight with it, is that people were forced to do something they didn't want to do. I do believe in all honesty, and that's traumatic also. I'm going to share with you that I see more kids now coming into my office because of the pandemic from being stuck on computers all day, playing on tablets, not going outside. During that time, I'm seeing more and more kids walking in my office, eight-year-old kids with anxiety.

Kristin (21:48)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Wow.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (22:12)
Now,

in my humble opinion, an eight-year-old kid should not have anxiety. And when you talk to eight-year-old kids and they're talking politics, that's another thing. I don't understand what parents are doing now to children. Why? And that's trauma that's gonna be programmed again back into the DNA. These kids are, know, like if you look at post-World War II people, people who lived in Europe, I have friends that are Italian, that their families grew up in Italy.

Kristin (22:18)
No.

Bye.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (22:37)
during the war, that they were eating dandelions, that trauma was in them, all right? And it was in their children and their grandchildren. Holocaust survivors, know, trauma continues. This is not something that goes away. And if we're creating an environment that's unsafe, right? These kids don't feel safe. Their autonomic nervous system's gonna feel like it's a fight or flight response. So go back to neurofeedback. What we do then is after we get a map, we find the areas of the brain that are most dysregulated.

Kristin (22:45)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (23:05)
usually frontal lobe, temporal lobe, parietal, occipital, motor strip, right? We're looking at different areas of the brain. And then what we do is we operately condition or train the brain through watching the screen. And as I'm watching the screen, I'll have wires. Let's say it's my temporal lobe. have a high emotional component on my right side of my brain or my language is off on my left side of my brain, right? I'm gonna have two wires here and it's just gonna read information into the computer. And as I'm watching the screen, if I'm in the desired area, that's gonna get my neurons to fire and wire.

Kristin (23:15)
Mm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (23:33)
then what I'm gonna do is the screen's gonna play bright. But it's gonna wanna challenge me and it's gonna make it harder and harder and harder for me. So I get into this window, now it's hard to describe the window here, but it wants to keep me in a zone. And if I keep myself in the zone, my neurons in my brain are gonna keep firing and wiring. And I'm being rewarded every time I'm in the zone and the zone gets smaller and smaller. Kind of like when Pavlov did that whole thing with dogs, know, he would feed them meat powder.

Kristin (23:36)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Mmm.

Okay.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (24:00)
he'd ring a bell and then they would salivate. Then eventually stop feeding the meat power, just rang a bell. He got a condition in the brain to think that there was meat there and they would salivate, right? Anticipating. But we don't make people salivate. What we do is get people's neurons to fire and then they start to wire together. And as they wire together, they create new neural pathways, thickening the cortex of the brain and causing the brain to create new patterns to stop the trauma. And you know,

Kristin (24:11)
Mm-hmm.

Mm, beautiful.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (24:28)
It's pretty amazing to see what it does. Cause I have people come in with an order ring. I saw you had one on before, right? You have an order ring. So when we do neurofeedback on someone and they're doing it they're wearing their order ring. No, no, no, no, no. It's great. The order ring will tell them they took a nap. it a good 30 minute nap you just took, right? Yep. Yep. And they're like, wow, look at this doc. Like I have cases of PTSD in my office. have right now, I'll give you some of the off.

Kristin (24:34)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Take it off. I'll leave it on. leave it on. cool. Okay.

wow,

Dr. Ron Nathanson (24:56)
cases that have been in my office. had a kid that was getting in fist fights every day at school. And he's a big kid. You know, I think he's 11 and 12, getting in fights every day. Mom's calling me up really nervous. I ain't going away. Kid starts to get better. All of sudden he's not fighting. Now his grades are going up. His brain has calmed down. His brain has been thinking it's in a fight or flight response. Right? So he comes from a home that's broken. Mom and dad divorced. Not that that's bad. I'm just saying that's how he perceives the world, right? That's not safe.

Kristin (25:23)
Thank you.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (25:24)
Now all of sudden his brain is starting to feel safe. Another case, a little boy who came to my office who got two beautiful parents, right? Really nice relationship, but this kid, nervous, wouldn't get on a bus, afraid to go to school, right? Started doing neurofeedback on him. He's winning spelling bees. The kid was doing horrible in school. This is the type of stuff that happens. Once you get the brain to start firing and wiring, you can actually change the direction of a person's life.

Kristin (25:26)
Mmm.

you

beautiful.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (25:52)
And people say to me, charge a lot of money for this. And I'm like, well, to change someone's teeth, braces wise, it's like seven grand, right? I change a person's brain for about $3,500. Now, it costs a lot more money to have a bad brain than it does to have messed up teeth, even though we like teeth.

Kristin (26:02)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And

what the quality of life is going to be like, how do you put a value on that if you're going to be able to go and function and thrive in the world? So it's like exponentially.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (26:17)
Yep. Now I will tell you we

haven't touched the the last the taboo part of my business.

Kristin (26:22)
I

want to also, I want to just say, you know, it's also just because I think I had like mentioned to you or asked you, like, hey, Dr. did those, all the things I did to my frontal lobe before it was fully developed like,

Dr. Ron Nathanson (26:35)
Yeah, you might have you might have done some damage but remember the brain is always constantly wiring itself right and It really comes down to can you get rid of the stories and one of the things that I find that works amazing for really? Accepting the stories is psychedelics And I'm not talking about synthetics. I'm talking about like mushrooms and ayahuasca I've done both and I can share with you my first experience

Kristin (26:41)
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

I love measuring.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (27:02)
on the psilocybin ceremony, I went to the ceremony and I said to the guy, you know, we come with an intention. And the intention was, what is my life purpose? I'm a midlife person. I'm in my early 50s and I want to figure out what's my purpose in life and why am I not living the life I want to live? Those were the two questions, right? So the first day it was obvious, I'm a servant. was helping everybody through the ceremony, breathing when they were stuck, helping them find their way.

Kristin (27:03)
Please.

no.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (27:29)
I felt at home in the ceremony. I didn't see any darkness yet, I wasn't looking for it the next night My friend Sal says to me. Hey Ron. This is the guy who does our ceremonies He says you're a good giver, but can you receive and I was like And you know the traumas in my life. I grew up in a physically abusive home I got a lot of physical abuse so there I was getting some body work the second night

Kristin (27:43)
Mmmmm

Dr. Ron Nathanson (27:54)
feeling pretty good in my little mushroom world and he starts to open up the energy centers in my body and all of a sudden I can feel like the energy starts to surge through my body going up each shock where I can feel it and then all of a sudden it hit here my head tilts back and I let out the most primal scream I've ever let out in my life not just a primal scream but a scream for about 30 plus minutes and as I'm screaming all of a sudden people are coming to me

to help me, you know, want to be me, protect me. And I'm in this world inside my head where I'm watching a video of all the physical trauma I've been through, through being grown up as a kid. Like it's a literally like a television screen of all the trauma. And then in the end, I hear something in my head say, I did this for you, not to you. I did this for you, not to you. Not once, not twice, but three times. Then I heard it wasn't a punishment, it was a gift.

Kristin (28:33)
Mm.

Mmm.

you

Hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (28:52)
For you to

be a healer, you would have to feel and understand what other people went through. Otherwise, you couldn't be a healer. And it was like, whoa. And when I opened my eyes, two of my closest friends were sitting right there. One of them was Michael, and the other one was a woman named Sara. And at that time, they were both there for me, and they were sitting there, and tears were rolling down my face. And I felt like I lost 15, 20 pounds. All right? And I felt lighter.

Kristin (29:15)
Hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (29:17)
And I, next morning I woke up and I went up to Sal and I said, I don't know what you did, but I want to learn what you do and I want to bring people to you because...

healing is very important and people can't heal in the head space we're in. If you realize that your amygdala is constantly judging everything you do and constantly forcing you to this is bad, I'm good, all the story that keeps playing over and over in our head in the world of landmark education, they call this thing the already always way of being. We get stuck in a pattern. When we stuck in this pattern, you have to break it.

psychedelics can help break it. And I will say mirror work well on psychedelics is really amazing because you get to really see who you are and you can fall in love with yourself. Not in a narcissistic way, but a way to accept who you are and acceptance is really how we heal. we, you know, I think there, I could go into a whole psychedelic trip. I went on, on Ayahuasca where I got really some amazing downloads on

Kristin (29:51)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (30:17)
suffering and why we suffer and Maybe we'll do that the next time we speak because it's not a it. Well, okay, we can hit it I'll go over quick. All right, the first thing ayahuasca said to me. I'm sitting there. It's a beautiful sunny day I don't know anybody in this circle. We're outdoors in the woods and there's a bunch of guys and they're just chugging ayahuasca and I'm watching the guy who's giving it to them like Why more than one cup is it weak? Is there something wrong with it, right?

Kristin (30:18)
Hmm. Hmm.

Up to you. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (30:43)
And the macho me goes yeah, I need more just because those guys got more but there's like four or five guys like yeah They're smoking and getting high before and then they take the ayahuasca And then I hear people in the circle and I said to myself. It's a beautiful day today, and I'm gonna enjoy this I'm gonna enjoy every minute or this is for my highest good That's why I asked for whatever this is be at my highest good and all of sudden I hear people crying and people vomiting and all the tough guys that were making a lot of noise are now

Kristin (30:47)
you

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (31:12)
heaving and are miserable and I'm just like wow and I could hear all of a sudden my body say to me You enjoying the colors and I said yes, goes would you like to learn a little bit about suffering? Said I said yeah, but you're gonna learn about suffering because you're connected to every one of these people here today Energetically, you're connected to everyone in this circle. So you're gonna feel it You're gonna feel other people's suffering and I think on some level we do

Kristin (31:24)
Mmm.

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (31:37)
The first thing I learned in the suffering process to heal suffering is one, you're not in charge. Just accept it. You're just a little piece of the puzzle that helps either evolve people or you evolve, right? Like the whole purpose of living is to evolve and whatever's in charge, and I'm gonna call it what it is, God, whatever's in charge is causing you every day to find your way to Him. Right now it's gonna sound a bit Christian, but that's what it got me to.

Kristin (32:02)
Two more.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (32:04)
I was raised Jewish and I became more, I lived more in the world of every day I'm trying to find God, every day I'm trying to be more with God and accept God and love God. But the first thing is really that you're in a karmic circle or a soup and you're here to help other people and they're here to help you. So there is no good and there's no bad. That was the wild one, there's no good, there's no bad. What do you mean there's no good and there's no bad? Just what so. So if someone dies from a traumatic situation, yes, the attachment is painful.

Kristin (32:26)
huh.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (32:32)
But that person might have died to help someone else evolve or have them find themselves because they're so tortured. A guy goes to jail, he's going to learn something. Now, unfortunately, the system's not meant, and it's much more complex than this and I can go for hours in this. Second thing was about forgiveness. I'm going over this fast. Forgiveness. Forgive everybody, everybody, and have them forgive you. Ask for forgiveness and then forgive yourself because that's the most important part.

Kristin (32:34)
Where is he going? Where is he going?

Mm-hmm. It's huge.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (32:58)
We don't forgive ourselves. We beat ourselves up, right?

Kristin (33:00)
Thank

We're good.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (33:01)
So forgiveness was the

second thing. And then the medicine said to me, you got to learn to love. I love you. You have to learn to love people the way I love you. And I saw these eyes in the sky and I was like, whoa. And I'm looking and then eyes in the eyes are saying, I love you. You need to learn to love. Love unconditionally. And then it was like, okay, so if I love unconditionally, and that was a tough one, right? Because I know I don't love unconditionally. If I can love unconditionally, what if people don't love me unconditionally?

Kristin (33:10)
no.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (33:28)
That was the question I asked and all of a sudden I heard acceptance. You have to accept people where they're at. You're here to evolve and they're here to evolve and we're not all on the same planes. Though we might be physically here, know, in our minds evolution is a spiritual thing and we want to evolve as beings, right? So trauma is going to stop that evolving. But again, trauma again is to help you evolve, not hurt you. All right, this is again the process, right? So that's...

Kristin (33:31)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. yeah. Yeah, totally resonates

with me.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (33:56)
Alright, so then after that I'm like getting a butterflies flying around me and I'm like looking at this butterfly and just staring I'm watching this poor woman on the right of me vomiting and a guy on the left of me vomiting and this butterfly circling me and I go to want to help the person and I hear don't Would you help the butterfly out of the cocoon and I'm like Don't help anybody unless they ask for help because you're not allowing them to have the process they need heal themselves

Kristin (34:14)
you

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (34:22)
You're not here to fix anybody. You're here to work on yourself. You can't change anybody. And then the next thing that came through my head was this, I had been listening to a Robert Kennedy interview earlier. So I think this might've been coming. It was around the same time he came out on Rogan. He was talking about this guy, he's Cephasis, I think his name is. He pushes a rock up a hill and the hill rolls down. He pushes it back up. And I heard, learn the lesson once. You don't need to repeat things over and over.

Kristin (34:24)
mm-hmm

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (34:47)
I gave you the lesson to learn not to be stupid but to learn it, right? And then I heard then, now have gratitude for everything. Gratitude is everything. If you don't have gratitude, you have nothing, right? You're just misery. And then the last thing was in the last part of it, it's all perfect, whole and complete as that's a landmark saying, but more or less, it's all a gift, every bit of it. There's no mistakes. It's all a gift. You get to live this life. And when you live in that space, trauma disappears.

Kristin (34:55)
Yeah.

with them.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (35:15)
And that was huge. And I'm like sitting there going, do I have a book in me somewhere? You know, well, I was going to write a book, I definitely want to write with you because I read your book, and I laughed even through your pain. And through the painful stuff, you left it with humor and you kept it fun and light wasn't like conversations, you know, and but you made it so that it was fun to read.

Kristin (35:19)
That sounds like a great book. Let's write it. I might know someone who can help birth books.

Yeah. No.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (35:43)
I highly admired your book. was like, I couldn't put it down.

Kristin (35:46)
You know, there's a bonus chapter out there. I don't know if I sent it to you. And like I pulled up a couple of things that like touched on because I was like, oh, these all like resonate with me that I've either learned through life or just downloads or plant medicine or whatever you want to. Yeah. I mean, so many because I wrote down the other day, I was like, if I think of how deeply I love them, what's the capacity of the creator above? And so I'm like that awesome. Wow, that's a lot of love.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (35:48)
OOOOH

Haha

Noooo

Kristin (36:13)
And then speaking of my chapter, my bonus chapter, my editor had told me that my book was complete where it ended. And that may be true, but some people have told me like, this needs to be in there. And it was that after I finished the edits and everything, I was reading, this was August of 2020, I was reading many lives, many masters at the time while I was combing through my book. And then I got the news that my stepdad had died.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (36:34)
Mmm.

Kristin (36:38)
And I wrote the book entirely with the perspective that he was going to be alive and read it one day. And but I just had this like and I just burst into tears and I just had this like understanding and knowing that he had come into my life to impact me in both the quote unquote negative or positive ways so that through the expression of me through my healing it has the highest good of all.

evolution, that sort of thing. And so it's like, even though that I had experienced some traumatic situations, it was all for me. I got like very clear. I was like, wow, like we had an, I felt like we had a soul agreement to, to help evolve consciousness and expand and all of that.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (37:14)
well one of the

things I've learned after my father died was there was a freedom in that as well I mean I miss him I love him but there was this expectation that I had to do certain things to make him happy and I tell my kids all the time you don't have to make me happy it's your life you live your life I don't need I will never tell my kids what to do I tell them if you ask me my opinion I'll tell you my opinion but I am NOT going to ever tell you how to live your life and

Kristin (37:21)
Mm-hmm. yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (37:41)
you know, it's amazing. With that theory and whatnot, I've watched them struggle. I watched them get, you know, get beaten up by life. But I also watched them persevere and not have to need me or ask me for my advice. They barely ever asked me for my advice. And when they do, I just sit there and go, I know you got this, right? Like, so parenting is an interesting dynamic because if you get the fact that you have an imprint on your kid, parenting is a tough job.

Kristin (37:52)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (38:06)
All the people who parent out there, even your dog, right? I know you love your little dog, but your dog's gonna pick up on your habits, right? He's gonna do your thing. So he's gonna wanna make you happy. We're all that way. We're all people pleasers, right? Which unfortunately, in the long run, becomes detrimental because it hurts us, not helps us, because we forget who we are. And that's the premise of healing, right? Is to really, one, feel safe.

Kristin (38:09)
I do.

you

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (38:33)
So neural feedback helps the brain feel safe. Psychedelics, people always ask me about, well, what if you have a bad trip? I say there is no such thing as a bad trip. My first trip was you get something out of it and you learn from it and you integrate it into your life. That's really important. This journey we're on, if you look at it as a gift and not a punishment, it changes everything. It's like everything is here for me. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. Dad was an asshole.

Kristin (38:39)
Mm-mm. Get what you need.

yeah.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (38:58)
Why was dad an asshole? To make sure I wouldn't be around other assholes when I got older. Yeah, exactly. And you know, what it's done, what I see in you, when I read, you your energy is this glowing thing. So whatever you went through, you had to go through to become who you are today. Because if you didn't, who knows who you might have been. You might have, you know, so.

Kristin (39:02)
Yeah, how could this work for me?

Mm-hmm.

yeah, yeah, one of

the best compliments I've ever gotten, was like, damn, you've been through the fire and I can't even smell the ashes. I was like, thank you, I appreciate that. It's taken a lot of time and and surrender and acceptance.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (39:25)
That's a great

Well, I can't say that people can see the ashes in my world. I've had

many people say to me, I've seen you change so much, Ron. You have drastically changed. Yeah, and consciously I've tried to.

Kristin (39:42)
Yeah.

Yeah. And that's evidence of what's possible for other people too, which is beautiful. It's like, if he can change, then I can change too. Or that's an, that's a possibility. Yeah.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (39:50)
Well, you can't do

it by yourself. I'm gonna share this with you right now. The greatest way to heal is to accept God in your life. And I'm not here to start pushing the gospel or anything like that, but it will change your life if you do have a relationship with God. And God is a gift. And if we ignore that there's something out there, something bigger than us, if we don't believe in something that takes on us,

Kristin (39:56)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (40:15)
and helps us and wants us to evolve. And then what we're really doing is we're really egotistical and we need to, that's gonna be a lesson you're gonna learn. I'm telling you right now.

Kristin (40:24)
Or maybe

nihilistic that everything has no meaning, which I don't subscribe to that. I have a relationship with God. It just looks and sounds a lot different than the one that I grew up with. Yeah.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (40:29)
That's a hard life too.

Well, you know what? I think

also that man destroys the relationship with God, not God. I think that when we look at religion and why people have such a, I became a Christian. So here we go. I became a Christian back in June of 2024. And when I started telling people who were Christians, I'm like, why, why? And I'm like, cause I have a relationship with Jesus. And they would tell me their horror stories of what happened in church with priests and whatnot. And I'd be like, well, those were man.

Kristin (40:38)
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (41:02)
doing that has nothing to do with Jesus. Those are people who came in. We're all flawed. That's the first thing we have to accept. That was the car. We're all flawed. No one's going to get out of this thing without being broken. We're all broken, right? That was what I got. The first thing that was given to me in that ayahuasca is you need something bigger than me. You're not charged. You're broken. We're all broken.

Kristin (41:09)
Yeah!

Thank you.

See,

I don't think we're broken. think we're flawed, but I think like, yeah. I just don't like the word broken because yeah, sometimes that implies, you know, ear repair. I don't know. yeah.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (41:27)
Well, I think broken and flawed is by degree. By degree.

No broken means

you need to accept that you're not perfect. I think that perfection is something that we think as a society as possible and I'm going to share with you. If you think you're perfect, you're on your way to pain pain because you're going to wake up to nobody like you if you think you're perfect. Well, if you think you need to become perfect, you're never going to hit it. So it's going to be miserable. Life is going to get hard. You're going to be like, oh why am I not perfect? What?

Kristin (41:40)
Yeah, that I can get down with.

Not yet.

Yeah.

Mm-mm.

Yeah.

Or why strive for something that's not possible?

Dr. Ron Nathanson (42:07)
And that's the other thing, acceptance of everybody

for who they are. If you accept people for their flaws instead of thinking they're supposed to be perfect, now you're developing empathy. And empathy is allowing us to allow other people to heal as well. So it goes back to my favorite poem, Our Deepest Fear. It's on my wall over there, and I'll probably paraphrase it wrong, but Our Deepest Fear by Marianne Williamson. Okay, so our deepest fear is not that we're inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we're powerful beyond measure. It is our light.

Kristin (42:16)
Mm-hmm.

Connection, yeah.

I'm not here.

love that. Yes, go ahead.

Thank you.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (42:36)
not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be fabulous, talented, gorgeous? Who are you not to be? You are a child of God. You playing small never serves anyone, right? And it says, goes on to say, and if you let your light shine, it gives people permission to let their light shine. And as you become whole, they become whole. So all we are is reflections for each other. We're mirrors. And have we...

Kristin (42:42)
Mm-hmm.

So true.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And sometimes that light may trigger others, but maybe – that's a pivotal part of their process too.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (43:03)
Well,

someone said a great quote was, my light might trigger yours, but it's evolving you. Like, exactly, exactly. There are a lot of great quotes out there. I wish I could remember them all, but I'll tell you what, we're all here to have a healing experience. If you're ignoring that, you're really missing out on the most beautiful thing about life, which is yourself and learning who you really are and then who God is.

Kristin (43:08)
You're welcome.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (43:26)
And then as you evolve to self-realization, to exercise who you are in that space, then you can maybe, I doubt I'll ever reach a Christ consciousness, but wouldn't that be amazing to be in that light where you can walk and nothing gets to you, nothing bothers you. That's worth more than any piece of material stuff you could ever have, to walk into any environment and be peaceful, loving and contributing to others. That's amazing.

Kristin (43:40)
Mm-hmm.

Accepting.

Accepting. Yeah, I've experienced a lot of freedom recently. I read the Courage to Be Disliked and it talks a lot about Adler psychology and just unassigning the tasks that aren't mine from the first place, like other people's opinions. And so like, that is, yeah, I'm like, that's theirs. That's not mine. And so there's just like so much freedom. And also they weave in the serenity prayer in that book too, which is beautiful.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (44:06)
Sure, well that's what's going on in their head. In their flaws.

Well, you know, I go to AA meetings. I don't have an alcohol problem or a drug problem, but I've gone to AA meetings and I find them to be amazing because the first premise out of AA is you're out of control. Yes, surrender. You don't have control of your life. Give it over to God.

Kristin (44:24)
Yeah. Something greater than yourself.

You know, interesting enough, like I grew up in that realm in space. So I feel like maybe some of my subconscious was primed for that because like my stepdad was, you know, an AA, a tinder for 20 something years. My mom probably has a PhD in Al-Anon.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (44:45)
What's his name? Lonnie, your stepdad? Yeah. I remember that name stuck in my craw. My experience of reading your book was like, motherfucker.

Kristin (44:47)
That's the name in the book, I'll stay with that, yeah. Mm-hmm. What?

So.

Well, I

kind of wanted people to fall in love with him as a father figure and then like flip it like it flipped from me. Yeah.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (45:06)
Well, that's exactly why I got motherfuckers, excuse my language,

was because of the fact that he earned trust and then he betrayed it. And I was like...

Kristin (45:11)
Yeah.

Yeah. But it was all for me. I had a response initially, but yeah, I definitely came to the conclusion that it was all for me. And so whenever you said that and we're telling your story, I started crying. It was very emotional and tugged on my heartstrings. I loved it. And I'm really grateful you shared that. Because Whenever I'm experiencing emotion, I feel like that is truth as resonance in my body.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (45:15)
Yep, I get that.

Well, I'll share this with you. We go through this for a reason and I don't know the reason and God knows far better than all of us and he sees all of us and believes in all of us. And when you hear that and you say to yourself, if you accept it as real, then all of a sudden it makes everything magical. If you don't accept it, then it makes everything like you're in a chaotic world and there's no purpose to it whatsoever. So I look at it like,

This is a gift. I love watching people's lives heal because when people heal, you're giving them something that, well, God's giving them, that you just sit back and watch, but they're getting something that nothing financially could ever substitute, right? All the gold in the world is not gonna make a person happy. I've watched it many times. Yeah, yeah, I know.

Kristin (46:01)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I've had that experience for sure. And then

they and once they're healed, they go out into the world and create beautiful ripple effect.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (46:26)
Yeah, well that's what you did. You do. You're changing people's lives with your books, with your podcasts. Yeah. Well we're all healers. We all have the, that's another thing. We all have the ability to help each other heal. You know how you help someone heal? Love them. Just love them. Love them for all their flaws. Love them for all their mistakes. Love them for where they're at. Because if you can love somebody for everything they're about, love wins.

Kristin (46:27)
Yeah. thank you. I'm a healer! You're a healer!

Mm-hmm.

Mmm. Love and except. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (46:52)
There's so many quotes in the Bible.

My favorite one is, well, about love is like when your enemies, if your enemies feed them, give them water when they're thirsty, feed them when they're hungry. It's like pouring hot coals on their head, right? You kill them with love is what it's saying, right? That's in Psalms and it's I think in Romans. And what it's saying is basically, I'm in charge of how this is gonna be and I'm gonna love on you. And eventually it's gonna break you down because love wins. Love always wins.

Kristin (47:04)
in.

Yeah, if I'm only gonna need you,

yeah. I had an experience at the end of February. It was like one of my first private Tantra events and we were just sharing like grief stories or like stories or lessons we had wish we had communicated to our loved ones. And I was like, I wish I would have told my friend that I loved him whether he was using or not. And then this shooting star darted across the sky. was like, he knows, he knows. It was just so, and I just spontaneously started crying.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (47:43)
heard stories about where people go to their to the other side and they see people and they meet them with love they meet them their worst enemies meet them there with love yeah like that's you know so let's call it that everybody's in your life as an actor or partake in your play that you're living to grow and you just got to learn to love people I know this is crazy but

Kristin (47:49)
Yeah.

It's like a welcoming party. Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (48:05)
you kill people with love. I learned this also when I was a leader of a group and I had to speak in front of everybody. The first time I spoke, everybody was just attacking me. And I had someone clear me for the next meeting and I walked into the room and I just kept smiling at people. And I think to myself, I love you. And I'd catch eyes and if I would say, love you in my head, they would look back at me and smile back, right? They could feel the love. And then if I looked at someone and I'd say, love you and I didn't get anything, I knew they weren't there. They weren't present.

Kristin (48:21)
Mmm.

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Thank you.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (48:35)
So I would call on them and say, hey, so and so. And did you get that? Did you get that? And I'd just smile at them and they'd be like, they'd be kind of embarrassed, but they would feel the love come at them that they would give it up immediately. That's how you win. That's healing, is loving people. And there's no other way around it. And if we can learn to get upset, if we can stop being upset when someone cuts us off and go, have a great day, I love you.

Kristin (48:49)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (48:59)
know a guy that's dying right now. He's an elderly guy. He's in a hospital in Ohio. He's got cancer really bad. He walks into the oncology ward. He says to everybody he walks up to, remember Jesus loves you. Jesus loves you and I love you too. And this guy has created a movement there. Everybody in that hospital knows Tom. Everybody knows him. He's like this, you can tell he's in pain every time he talks, but his energy gets up the minute he says Jesus loves you.

Kristin (48:59)
Mm.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (49:27)
And it's kind of cute. It's cute, but it's also empowering because love wins.

Kristin (49:31)
Yeah.

Yeah. There's been times before I would like to make this a more regular practice, but I'll just be walking down the street or, you know, and I love you. I'm thinking, I love you and I love you and I love you. And I love like the Ram Dass quote about, we all God in drag? Because I tend to think, I tend to think that, you know, if we tend to look at each other as like different expressions of God or like we're all little mini gods, as far as like God experiencing us, like, I get to experience you through this lens and we're all walking in each other home and healing and.

looking at it through, I like it.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (50:01)
What I get

from Ram Dass, one of my favorite quotes that Michael always brings up for me, is that what I look for, I find. What I'm seeking, I find, right? So if I'm seeking that you're an asshole, you're gonna show up as an asshole. If I seek that you're a beautiful person, you're gonna show up as a beautiful person. So that's one. And then, you know, we're all mirrors for one another, which is another factor. And there was another quote that I wanted to throw out there and I just went, boom, so it's gone. Be here now.

Kristin (50:09)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

Be here now. We're all want each other.

We're walking each other home.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (50:32)
Maybe, I mean, it's all,

you know, they're all truths, right? They're all beautiful truths. And there's a lot of great stuff out there to empower us. And you're here for only a certain amount of time. I would think that the best thing you can do is just stay in that empowered zone and learn to love life, whatever shows up for you. It's a gift, so.

Kristin (50:51)
It's totally

a gift, like the one of the most beautiful gifts.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (50:54)
Well, I appreciate very much being here today. This was fun.

Kristin (50:56)
I'm so

glad that you're here. God, feel like we could just dipped our toes. So you'll definitely have to come back on. Did you want to share any upcoming events or any ways to reach you?

Dr. Ron Nathanson (51:04)
Well, if if

well, I if you want to reach me out, I don't know. I don't have much for web pages and stuff. I kind of stay away. have Instagram. Yeah. What is my name on Instagram? It's not Ron Nathanson. It's like Dr. Ron transformation. Yeah, because I also do coaching, right? So I've got a lot of transformative coaching for people. I've helped a lot of amazing stories of people really take some games and go big with them. But the

Kristin (51:10)
You have an Instagram.

It's long, I'll put it in the, I'll link it.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (51:30)
What you gonna be?

Kristin (51:34)
Hmm.

Wow. Mmm.

on it.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (51:51)
All right, and then like other people I've worked with, I worked with someone that helped get a play on off Broadway from scratch. We sat there from the beginning to the all the way to the opening night, you know, and that was fun. And yeah, I've had a lot of fun coaching people. The pandemic allowed me that opportunity because no one was coming into my office during the during the, you know, the lockdown. I used to drive around with an adjusting table in my car.

Kristin (51:56)
How cool.

Thank you. Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (52:17)
is how the cops, and cops pulled me over not once, but like four or five times. And I'm like, I'm just doing house calls. There's an adjusting table in the back and I'd go hiking. I'd be like up in State Park hiking and be like, fuck this bullshit, excuse me. God bless Texas. I live in New York. So it's a bit interesting. Yes, Texas is a much more freeing state. It's amazing to think that I live in a country that has difference from state to state and that we have different freedoms and that

Kristin (52:29)
I'm less Texas now. Yeah, it's a little different.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (52:45)
Our government has so much say over us. That's enough to make me scratch my head sometimes and go.

So anyway, we can talk for hours here.

Kristin (52:52)
I know.

I want to come up for some brain mapping. I'm very curious.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (52:56)
That's one of the things I'm doing this next ceremony in

April. We have a ceremony on the 11th through the 13th I'm actually mapping people pre and post to see if the changes take place During the ceremony what changes actually change the brain? Well that might be the next step is to to create a weekend sometime where we do brain maps pre post each ceremony that would be pretty wild

Kristin (53:12)
And do they need to come to your office to do the pre? Okay.

Yeah. That'd be interesting.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (53:25)
Yeah, I just don't know if I'd be enjoying the ceremony that way and have to be more on work.

Kristin (53:27)
Yeah.

I'm curious to see what it would look like before and after. That's so cool.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (53:33)
Well, there's definitely changes. I've seen it in my brain maps what happened. You know, I also use a lot of nutrients, you know, I use a lot of nutrients and herbs to change people. I work with a company that I, like I said, really changes brain maps as well and helps trauma. it's, and people don't sell it that way, but cellular damage is trauma on the body. Free radical damage on the cells is trauma and the body's breaking down. Mitochondrial health is trauma.

Kristin (53:35)
Thank you.

I've... not hit.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (54:02)
You go look up a word on PubMed called Oxidated Stress. When I started looking at this topic three years ago, there was 260,000 peer-reviewed articles. Where three years later, it's now 256,000. So that's almost 100,000 peer-reviewed articles in three years. That's 30,000 peer-reviewed articles a year. That's 300 plus, don't know, 33,000 a year. Divide that by 52.

So that's like 600 peer review articles a week. This is a hot topic. You know, this is a hot topic. And if you're having problems with anything, cancer, heart disease, strokes, diabetes, all connected to oxidative stress. All of it. What's that? Oxidative stress is free radical damage to the cells. So if you want more information, help me up on an instant message on Instagram. Okay. I'll be more than happy to have a conversation with you. Yeah.

Kristin (54:32)
Yeah. Yeah.

And is that inflammation? So what is oxidative stress? Okay.

Yes,

yes connect with Dr. Ron. I'll put all the links and or my lovely assistant will put all the links in the show notes and if you enjoyed this conversation and totally appreciate a review or a share or something to keep this train to toon.

Dr. Ron Nathanson (54:57)
Yeah, that's

All right. Well, I think,

you know, I watch your, your, your, your, your, your, your videos. I don't want to call this as a podcast.

your podcasts are amazing. I love your podcast.

Kristin (55:22)
me stop, Chris. thank

you, I appreciate it.