64. Redefining Creativity & Making Life Art with Kristen Chicol Artwork

Sex, Drugs, & Soul

Welcome to Sex, Drugs, & Soul—where the sacred gets spicy, the healing gets real, and the self-discovery comes with a side of mischief. I’m Kristin Birdwell—author, mystic, tantrika, story doula, and professional line-blurrer between the profane and the profound.

For years, I thought I had to choose between my wild, rebellious nature and my deep spiritual calling. Turns out, the magic happens when we embrace and integrate the two. This podcast is where we break the rules, shed the shame, and get intimate with our truth—whether that’s through soul-stirring conversations, sensual exploration, or the occasional existential crisis (served with a wink and a cocktail).

I bring you raw stories, deep wisdom, and unfiltered conversations with fellow seekers, healers, and pleasure revolutionaries. We’re talking spirituality, sexuality, self-expression, and all the beautifully messy things that make us human.

So, if you’re ready to rewrite the story, drop the ‘shoulds,’ and live a life that turns you on—welcome. Let’s get wild, raw, and soulfully reclaimed.

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Sex, Drugs, & Soul

64. Redefining Creativity & Making Life Art with Kristen Chicol

January 27, 2025 • Kristin Birdwell • Season 3 • Episode 1

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In this heartfelt conversation, Kristin and Kristen dive into the messy, beautiful world of creativity. They talk about the challenges of overcoming personal blocks, the magic of collaboration, and the vulnerability that comes with putting your art into the world. Sharing stories from their journeys in music and comedy, they reflect on how everyday moments spark creativity and the importance of staying true to yourself. With a focus on self-love, authenticity, and emotional safety, they explore how embracing vulnerability can help us grow both personally and creatively.

Connect with Kristen:
Instagram: @‌kristenchicol

Jump to the mic drop moments...
0:00 Intro
5:49 The Role of Identity in Creativity
15:01 The Vulnerability of Stand-Up Comedy
29:21 The Seeds of Creativity and Self-Love
34:41 The Impact of Friendship on Creative Growth
44:54 Embracing Authenticity and Vulnerability
57:13 Judgment and Self-Compassion in the Creative Process

Do you want to reset, expand, and feel more alive? Learn more about Naba and the community detox journey here.

Kristin Birdwell (00:00.814)
why do I have nervous pee with my best fucking friend since eighth grade?

Kristen Chicol (00:04.875)
Sweet.

Kristen Chicol (00:11.566)
I know, I think it's because we've talked about it. It's like one of those things where it's like off camera, we'd just be like, oh, we should have recorded this. then it's like, oh. But I mean, that's kind of what we're talking about today. So, you know, it's exciting. Well, we usually never know. I thought we were gonna do.

Kristin Birdwell (00:28.504)
What are we talking about?

Kristin Birdwell (00:36.462)
First off, wait, wait, wait, wait, pause, pause. Just a moment, people, guys. You all don't even know what this is. It's called a floppy disk, you Gen Zers. And it says mine and Kristen Chacol's screenplay. And so before I dive too, too much in, I just want to say that this person, Kristen, right here is very near and dear to my heart.

And we have been celebrating and supporting one another's goals, dreams and ambitions since we had like, you know, different hairstyles and since the eighth grade. Yeah. And I just want to give you some of the flowers for me as far as like how grateful I am that you're in my life and how I just think that you're so

Kristen Chicol (01:02.382)
You

Kristen Chicol (01:16.288)
Lots of different stuff.

Kristin Birdwell (01:30.872)
creative and witty and funny and I just am glad to have you in my circle and now if I finally get to share you with the people that listen to this podcast and buckle up.

Kristen Chicol (01:43.182)
It's gonna be a bumpy ride. For sure.

Yeah, so I know that we've been talking a lot, normally mainly like life stuff, but just like how that obviously affects your ability to be open and creative. And we have talked about resiliency a lot. And I was thinking about for myself, I think I'd mentioned this to you before about how I really wanted to focus on creativity this year. I know that I've always been like a creative person.

But I just always felt like, I'm too busy or I don't have enough money or all this, like all of these excuses. And I've like dabbled, you know? And so I was like, okay, if I really want to be more creative this year, I think I first have to look at like my blocks towards creativity. And then as I started doing that, I was like, wait, I think I need to like redefine what

creativity is to me. So I've just been kind of like work working on that. Well, I was just thinking about how like I was talking to a girl. We're both many gents manifesting generators. I don't know too much about human design, but one of the things that MGs are notorious for is like being pulled in a lot of different directions and just kind of thinking about like even since I mean you and I knew each other when we wrote the miracle of a tragedy.

Kristin Birdwell (02:52.182)
No.

Kristin Birdwell (03:01.944)
No.

Kristin Birdwell (03:18.542)
I mean, God, I can't believe that didn't get an Oscar. Yeah. You remember when we read that?

Kristen Chicol (03:21.119)
I know, right? Lifetime, call us. But then it was like, but then

Kristen Chicol (03:30.221)
Yes.

Kristen Chicol (03:35.245)
It was off Lemon Avenue in the Camden Apartments.

Kristin Birdwell (03:37.486)
Wine and some...

Kristen Chicol (03:42.163)
I think Daniel Brown was there.

Kristin Birdwell (03:44.91)
Was he? He just had a baby. Yeah, it's so lovely to see. was like, oh my God, is that yours? Instagram? Like, wow, you're a dad. Guess our contract is up because we had made an agreement, you know, that if we, by a certain age, if we're not married or have with another, we'll either practice or have a baby or get married. You used to write cold.

Kristen Chicol (03:47.01)
no way.

Kristen Chicol (03:52.521)
Ha ha ha ha ha!

Kristen Chicol (04:13.056)
wasn't in the stars.

Kristin Birdwell (04:14.39)
I used to write cool poems in seventh grade. yeah, no, I'm curious about what your creative blocks are and what creativity means to you. I didn't mean to interrupt your sidebar yet, but. Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (04:23.548)
I mean, that's just small town laugh for you. We gotta catch up on the hot gals. No, but then, know, it's like thinking about that time and also like, you know, I was like really into art at the time and I still am. Like that's something that's always been a part of me, but it's like I only applied to art schools except for UNT, which is ultimately where I ended up going. The first school.

Kristin Birdwell (04:46.239)
Hahaha!

Kristen Chicol (04:47.66)
And you know, I've done standup and then I'm kind of doing what I'm doing now with live music. And it was just kind of one of those, what is my thing? Like I felt like I had to have a thing. And it's like, but all the same time of having all of these thoughts, it's like, there's just always that kind of creativity, like simmering, you know, with like nowhere to go. And it's just eventually going to like burn you from the inside, you know, and.

Kristin Birdwell (04:59.021)
Yeah

Kristin Birdwell (05:13.819)
Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kristen Chicol (05:14.804)
I think for me, I was also thinking about, you know, because I just got into the live music thing this last year and before that I was just working in restaurants, which at the time I didn't think was very creative, but since I've kind of redefined things, I feel like it is very creative. And so I guess I was thinking about, I have some, let me cancel my notes real quick. yeah, okay.

Kristin Birdwell (05:38.638)
Well, you're good. No, can see it as waiting tables as being like a wellspring of like inspiration and characters that you have to interact with and like, you know, my choice, their fate. Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (05:49.819)
Yeah, it really, it really teaches you like so many valuable skills. But I was thinking about like, okay, like, even if I don't like even if I remove the burden of like picking a thing, I was like, you think about all these different roles that we have to facilitate in our everyday lives of like, we have to be like, a daughter or a sister or an employee or a coworker or all of these things. It's like we always have to kind of

Kristin Birdwell (06:13.902)
Uh, I don't know.

Kristen Chicol (06:19.697)
fill in the gaps and ultimately definitely contribute and give an output. But also like there is an undeniable element of like suppression of who you are, you know, because that's just kind of the give and take when it's not just who you are. And so I think for me, that's why creativity has been very challenging. And also thinking of like the restaurant circumstance where you're constantly meant to kind of deny your needs at the moment for the sake of

Kristin Birdwell (06:31.33)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (06:48.935)
of serving someone else and giving an experience. And so it's really hard to not only click out of like a very carved neural pathway of serving other people and suppression to expression and like vulnerability, you know what I mean? So it was like.

Kristin Birdwell (06:49.442)
Yeah, so do you.

Kristin Birdwell (06:59.821)
Bye.

Kristin Birdwell (07:03.245)
Because you might want to say something like that to someone, but you have to bite your fucking tongue because you want to keep the job. know, mean, no, and I can see, yeah, well, the labels and the hats that we wear, the identity or the boxes that we fit in or that we choose to align with or that we have to play a role or a certain part because this is,

Kristen Chicol (07:12.787)
Yeah, so that's how I got into stand up. That and trauma, that'll do it.

Kristin Birdwell (07:35.054)
our present moment or truth and that sort of thing, but it doesn't define the who we are in totality, you know, and that's how at least I feel. It's like, and I'm always like changing hats. I'm like, what am I calling myself today? How do I encapsulate who I am? Yeah, how do I who I am and what I want to express and be in the world, but like one label or thing.

Kristen Chicol (07:50.867)
Yeah. And it's just like giving yourself permission. Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (08:02.771)
Yeah, and I feel like for me too, it's like, okay, once you can kind of like wrap your head around the idea and embrace it of like, yes, I'm going to express myself. Yes, I'm going to be vulnerable. Yes, I want to connect. There's also this idea of like,

valuing creativity in this sense of like what you're inputting in your life and not just what you're exporting from it. Because I think it was you that sent me something recently and I feel like everybody reposts these things all the time and I'm not knocking them, I think they're true, but it's like we don't really value them as much. It was something to the effect of like you know...

your life is art, the way you smile, the way you order your coffee, all of these things. And everybody loves that sentiment, but I don't think we really like appropriately value that.

Kristin Birdwell (08:44.43)
Bye!

Kristin Birdwell (08:52.078)
Yeah, or approach it every day in that manner. Yeah, no, I would say that one of my blocks to it is something, yeah, that the pressure of exporting or because now there's like also like somewhat obligations or people are paying me to produce certain things, which is cool. I'm getting paid for writing. But it is also...

Kristen Chicol (08:56.956)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (09:14.119)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (09:16.942)
or like defining or assigning a goal or a certain attachment or expectation to like what I'm creating versus just allowing myself to create. Or like, yeah, so I've kind of tried to remove, well, have, or like I signed up for like this songwriting thing, like just to play also, like play with it, like just play and create without like that end goal in mind or some kind of fixed ideal and like nourish my creativity.

Kristen Chicol (09:25.49)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (09:35.016)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (09:45.166)
Yeah, I think like the day to day life too is so like a wealth, like the inspiration, like making my coffee and how good it tastes. know, I'm using coffee at five 30. Don't judge. Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (09:56.84)
I just had a red bull.

But yeah, it's like, that's one thing I was doing too last night. It's like, much of like, I think what would help me is like, doing things just because I enjoy them. Like I was like, wanna like, get back on my duolingo streak. I wanna like, take like a salsa class, which is, sounds so cheesy, but it's just like, movement and living, you know?

Kristin Birdwell (10:12.301)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (10:17.344)
Yeah!

I to a pussy energy class the other day. It's called big pussy energy and it's like a sensual dance thing and she's like, record yourself so you can see your progress. And it was great because I, well, at first I was like, okay, I want to get the routine, the dance moves quote unquote right. And then, so I noticed a big shift. was like, no, just have fucking fun.

Kristen Chicol (10:26.281)
Hahaha!

Kristen Chicol (10:36.409)
Hahaha!

Kristen Chicol (10:49.447)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (10:49.484)
like dance, move your body, get out of like the judgment or the judger of because you're being witnessed by other women in the room too. And so it's like one group goes, one group witnesses, one group goes, one group witnesses. And so, but once I finally was able to like drop that sense of like, or the pressure that I was putting on myself, I like was like able to have fun with it and like tap into it or just have more fun.

Kristen Chicol (11:10.629)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (11:16.906)
enjoy the dance class. So don't think the dance class is silly at all. And I say like, do it.

Kristen Chicol (11:22.792)
I'm gonna try. But that's the thing too, it's about recalibrating kind of like your value in terms of like results versus like experience. You know, like being creative in that way. so, man, it's super hard, but it's like I have to follow as someone like being a manager and it's like I have to follow where my

Kristin Birdwell (11:24.374)
Yup!

Kristin Birdwell (11:37.292)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Kristen Chicol (11:52.741)
interests are and it's okay to be like have more than one lane. And I think part of the reason I was thinking about this too, like part of the reason different things appeal to me is not just because I enjoy those mediums, but I think for me a huge part of it is back to not just like connection from what you create, but also collaboration. Like I've like helped my friends write some songs. I've like

Kristin Birdwell (12:16.59)
Mmm.

Kristen Chicol (12:22.226)
given my friend's advice on like, that's like a fashion designer and it's just like, I love that kind of creative play process. That's almost like.

It's just so valuable to me, you know, because it's just connection at the end of the day. You say what?

Kristin Birdwell (12:33.966)
Why are these so complicated?

I I want to do something with you. I've wanted to do something with you for years. Like whether it's a script or a song or I mean, this, we're doing this. We're here. Yeah. I'm like, and who knows where we'll go. You know, just because I value like your insight and your creative genius so much.

Kristen Chicol (12:41.424)
I know.

Kristen Chicol (12:47.526)
I know! We did it, Joe!

There was something else I wrote down.

Kristen Chicol (13:05.726)
my gosh, stop it.

Kristin Birdwell (13:07.094)
And like, I mean, just think that you're so talented. Yeah, no, what's so what would you say is like the biggest one calling to you right now besides this lovely podcast?

Kristen Chicol (13:14.626)
thanks.

Kristen Chicol (13:22.439)
I mean gosh I would say

Kristen Chicol (13:30.362)
It's so hard. It's so hard to pick, but it's almost like I think I just... I think...

This is like gonna be the first year where I really let multiple projects kind of pull me as they inspire me because I think You know in the same way like when you think about like working out, right? It's like you can't always do it when you have the motivation You just have to show up and keep doing it. But it's like ultimately there's always gonna be one of those like Projects that I'm working on that's gonna pull me and it's like if I just need to stay in this one for a little bit and then once I'm kind of like, okay, it's not feeling

Kristin Birdwell (13:43.479)
Come on.

Kristen Chicol (14:07.462)
as in flow, then I can kind of jump over to the next one. And like the three things that I'm working on right now, I would say would be definitely trying to like do standup again. I've been feeling the pull. I've kind of reconnected with a couple of my comic buddies lately and they're like, why are you doing it? Like you've always been so funny. I just, one of the things I think I'm drawn to that the most is because

It doesn't really require as much polish, you know? It's just a little bit like, especially when you think about the world that we live in, know, like Instagram and TikTok and all of these. my gosh, we'll see, we'll see, sister. But it's like, there's so much kind of like.

Kristin Birdwell (14:38.402)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (14:48.802)
TikTok though.

Kristen Chicol (15:01.105)
fabrication for lack of a better word, which is great. I that's part of building something, whatever you want to do. there's just, to me, I always say my favorite drug in the world is just uncontrollable laughter. There's nothing like it. And it's just I've always felt like you can get to know somebody by making them laugh really hard with a joke versus spinning 30 minutes. So where are you from? How many siblings do you have? What's your favorite color? And it's like...

Kristin Birdwell (15:02.51)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (15:26.071)
No

Kristen Chicol (15:29.669)
because there's just something that you recognize. then it's the experience, the laughter, and then it's just that immediate kind of knowing like, I know that person in a way because that's like, I relate to it, you know? And it's just a natural like human connection element. I like it because it's scary.

Kristin Birdwell (15:53.262)
Yeah, was about to say it's to me, it is the scariest form of art. To me, that's the one that takes the most balls, the biggest pussy. When I think about doing stand-up, I'm like, oh, that one feels vulnerable and raw.

Kristen Chicol (16:14.274)
Yeah, it's like, kind of liken it to like that Dolly Parton quote where it's like, takes a lot of money to look this cheap. It's like, it takes a lot of like, thought to especially to come up because I'm I'm of the belief that like, delivery is as important as the material. Because I remember and like when I first ever started doing that, I think it was like 2012.

I went to, I think I went to an open mic like four times and I was like, this is going to be the time that I sign up. This is going to be the time. And I remember looking around the room and I'm like, Like, why am I even worried about this? But then when I actually think about doing it, I was like, I can't, I can't do it. can't do it. And you just see so many people die on the vine. Like there's, there were people that would just be like, so like, yeah, like, and then like, like I ate her pussy, you know, or whatever. And it's like, it's not even good material.

but it's so much more like enjoyable other than you see somebody that like has great material, but they're like this, they're just like, and then, you know, and it's just like, you're so taken out of the experience. So I think it's like equal parts that. And I also just think like, and I think that totally speaks to the idea that you and I both have of like everything serves you. Speaking of serving, like being in restaurants and having to kind of think on your feet, like my wit has definitely.

come in handy for that. And I think just kind of having to come up with things on the spot like that totally lent itself to like how I do stuff. Because even though in the past it's been so long, I haven't really done standup since like pre-COVID, which is why I'm like, but I was like three Christians ago too. So it's interesting. I've never felt more like myself. So it'd be interesting to see like,

Kristin Birdwell (18:09.966)
Mmm. Mmm-hmm. Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (18:10.629)
how that experience would be now. Because it was only kind of towards the very end that I was actually enjoying it. It just felt like living a panic attack but acting like nothing was happening for a long time. Inside I'm like the guy, but outside I'm like Anna, you're a pussy. So that's super interesting. But then, oh my gosh.

Kristin Birdwell (18:23.086)
Yeah. Yeah. I want to be there when you do it. And you know, like Austin is a Mecca now. Like the comedy Mothership. I think they have open night or open mic nights on like Sundays or Mondays or something. Like let's go.

Kristen Chicol (18:40.429)
I know.

Kristen Chicol (18:48.483)
I know, I just need to come down there anyway and come see you.

Kristin Birdwell (18:50.67)
or let's at least go visit, yes, go visit, no pressure.

Kristen Chicol (18:55.908)
No, and it's like, I just feel more in this space of like...

Yeah, I think I can just like say whatever the fuck I want to say because another thing like this is like going back to the idea that life's always serving you is I think about like my role at the venue and like what I do. I remember thinking like, you know, it's going to be like rock stars and like, and I wasn't really worried about it just because like my experience and like fine dining and all that stuff. I mean, I've waited on actors, athletes, like.

Kristin Birdwell (19:14.849)
I know.

Kristen Chicol (19:35.78)
politician and stuff like that. But it was just more like, I'm, but like, it's just, it's just a different world, you know, like I'm kind of jumping into their world, but all of the skills that I learned in comedy and in serving, like totally helps me with that. And that's what I always kind of.

Kristin Birdwell (19:54.092)
Well, drop in real quick what exactly you're doing for people.

Kristen Chicol (19:57.729)
So I work in the production department at a popular venue here under, well I was like, should I? I don't know, I mean I might get some stalkers, know. don't I'd have to get past security, because I'm backstage. No, so yeah, I work in the live, I work in the production department there, and my role is called green room hospitality, so like if somebody wants like,

Kristin Birdwell (20:02.51)
You know what I said. I don't know. Maybe not. True.

Kristen Chicol (20:23.342)
blue skittles and yellow roses and like a pony. Like I'm the person that like facilitates that. Kind of just like a general liaison for like little grievances, like keeping the tour happy, comfortable, depending on if we're like facilitating their meals or picking up their food, like kind of that stuff, setting up the stage, side stage, waters, all that stuff, flipping the green rooms. Just basically like I'm like.

Kristin Birdwell (20:40.238)
Bye.

Kristen Chicol (20:49.708)
Because we do have a show to put on, so the stage manager, if they have to be the bad cop to kind of protect our bottom line but also keep the show on time, I'm kind of the good cop to kind of come in and make sure everything's kind of smooth. So with that, that's an element that's almost been so interesting. I'm like, my gosh, am I just, is it gonna be my worst table every night, every day? Because they're.

expecting a certain thing, but weirdly, like, I have not had one experience with like a rock star or a comedian or anybody that was anywhere remotely close to like some of the horrible people that I've waited on and just like regular rich people. It's kind of crazy. Like I remember being like, my God, people are terrible. And it's so funny too, because it's like, I feel like a lot of the times people cop those attitudes because they want to be

Kristin Birdwell (21:33.538)
yeah.

Maybe that's something.

Kristen Chicol (21:48.341)
more like the lifestyle of like the people that I'm actually working with now. And it's been cool because I think there's just something about being in the building and being in that department that like it's almost like nine times out of 10, I would say that the tours kind of like remove that that glass, know, the kind of like that distance that they have with fans and you get to see a little bit more of like, you know.

the artist behind the art kind of a thing. And I've been taking so many notes of things that inspire me through that too. And you just see how, especially now that I've been doing it for over a year, how normal their life is in that way. I mean, it's not normal because it's just, there is a little bit of that rock and roll and kind of flash, but like.

There's just so much normal human moments in it across the board, whether it's like their production team or their people or the artists themselves or just...

Kristin Birdwell (22:47.896)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin Birdwell (22:55.694)
Well, put me in, it would put me in a sense of, or a place of visualization too. Like, okay, how is it going to look one day whenever I am doing X, Y, Z or executing this or living this vision or version of myself. And like, I think I love like the artists way. And I made a commitment to start taking myself on artist dates again, to feel the creative well of like, be more inspired and like you're, you get exposed to like different shows.

Kristen Chicol (23:02.57)
totally.

Kristin Birdwell (23:25.326)
Um, on a regular and consistent basis. So you're like feeling your creative well with all this like good juiciness and inspiration. And I think that's cool. And I love what you said too, about just like everything serving us. I mean, I just came off of a little recording. I was going to try to squeeze in a solo podcast before we hopped on. And I realized that I, for some reason, the sound didn't record. So was like, Oh, like, is that one for me?

Kristen Chicol (23:43.884)
Mm-hmm.

Kristen Chicol (23:50.626)
And sometimes, yeah, sometimes I think you totally need that. And that's one thing that I kind of, I feel like has recalibrated my mind back towards like, how does this make, how does my creative pursuits both like input, inputting into my well and then kind of exporting, if you will, how...

Kristin Birdwell (23:55.19)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (24:14.082)
how like it's brought that idea to the forefront of like how does the experience feel because it's not just like when I watch certain shows or like because when the show's actually going on itself I kind of have a free moment because everybody that needs me is on stage and so just not just like seeing what they're putting out but just seeing like how the audience receives it you know because the days can be really long like I'm gonna be working a show on Wednesday where our crew call is at 7 30 a.m.

and I probably won't leave we get there before their venue access is that a burp?

Kristin Birdwell (24:45.454)
No, it was just more of like a for 730 a.m. But I do burp. Burps are welcome here on the podcast. I feel like they're needing energy.

Kristen Chicol (24:50.465)
Oh, with you, you know, I just said yes.

Kristen Chicol (24:59.906)
Yeah, and so we have to get there an hour before they have venue access and then we leave after they leave. So I'll probably be there from like 730 a.m. to like 1 a.m. It's a lot. It's a lot, it's exciting. It's fun. part of what helps is one coffee for sure.

Kristin Birdwell (25:13.006)
Woo!

I'm back!

Kristen Chicol (25:25.939)
It's just like the, I always love being out in the crowd when the headliner goes on and it's like all dark and then people are like cheering and then once they see them emerge, just this like, it just like vibrates the room, you know? And that's what really like has grounded the idea because everybody believes in energy and like, you know, it's like good vibes, bad vibes, whatever, but how transferable it is.

Kristin Birdwell (25:39.563)
Mmm.

Kristin Birdwell (25:52.461)
Hmm

Kristen Chicol (25:52.629)
because there's been times where, especially if I'm unfamiliar with an artist, that's where it like, wow's me more. And I'm like kind of tired, so I just kind of go out to the side, like up top and look out. And then I'm like...

That was incredible. they're amazing. And I just feel energized all of a sudden. And it's just like, you see the effect that you have on people. feel like for me, I'm realizing that what I create is for me, but it's definitely with the intention of wanting to give to others. And Rick Rubin is somebody that I super look up to. I haven't read it yet. I know I'm a poser, but like I watch interviews with him.

Kristin Birdwell (26:26.146)
Mm-hmm.

I love that book.

Kristin Birdwell (26:34.126)
It's a good one to just, I mean, you watch what? Videos? cool.

Kristen Chicol (26:37.808)
just like interviews with him a lot and he's like, you're never supposed to make anything for other people. It's not for them, it's for you. And that's the best thing that you can do for the audience. And so I'm definitely trying to adopt that way of thinking more and just kind of in the same way, like with stand up, know, faking it till you make it, like, you know, being so like laissez faire, but like dying inside is like, it's that same way of like when you can kind of

Kristin Birdwell (26:47.971)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (27:08.935)
get in the character of like your future self or the person that you want to embody. Like people notice it and that's what

Kristin Birdwell (27:19.956)
certain vibratory signature that you're admitting.

Kristen Chicol (27:24.326)
Yeah, and it's interesting. Yeah, it's like, I remember when I was waiting tables, I would get a lot of the same compliments a lot, like, like, you're so funny, you're so professional, like, it was just a very polished experience, like, your service felt very personal. And like some of the things, like I'm in the same way, like at the venue, it's like I'm getting the same feedback from the tours, but it's like,

obviously totally different and it just makes me think like, huh, these people are around like the biz, know, the creative types all the time. So to kind of consistently get those comments from, I mean, all different types of people too. I've worked, you know, burlesque, country, rap, metal, rock, pop, like, to just kind of consistently get those, this similar feedback. It's like, yeah, like it's, it's definitely given me this idea that like I can't.

And that's, think, biggest, the first step to real creativity is you can. And yeah, why not me? So we're learning. We're learning.

Kristin Birdwell (28:26.178)
Yeah, believing in yourself.

Yeah. Why not me?

Kristin Birdwell (28:36.334)
If we choose to. I know I've definitely been given a plethora of freaking lessons. I've actually been doing a lot of reflection the past week because about like lessons and creativity and art and like past self and future self because it was the 10 year anniversary of getting interviewed by detectives and like how like January 15th, 2015.

Kristen Chicol (28:38.727)
Hoo-wee!

Kristen Chicol (28:59.385)
yeah!

Kristin Birdwell (29:03.596)
And like how that felt like at my lowest of low and I was not creatively expressing myself and doing all sorts of things. And I had a moment on this podcast that I recorded, I was talking about it and I got emotional and I was like, it's me today. Whispering to her then like, you can do it. Like you can do it. And

Kristen Chicol (29:21.217)
Aww.

Kristin Birdwell (29:31.054)
or just like instilling that hope. so I'm like, and then also like plants the seed for me, like of the person like 10 years in the future, like what is she whispering to me today? And it's like something I haven't written the letter yet. But it's also like kind of what you're speaking to, care how the way you're carrying yourself or how you're the energy that you're emitting to to people or like that vibration. And so I want to sit with that for sure.

Kristen Chicol (29:42.15)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (29:58.254)
But yeah, it was very, it just kind of had like that, you know, truth resonance moment where, you know, it's like, did the thing, it might have taken you a decade or 12 years, 13 years to do it, but you finally listened to yourself. And I think that creativity is the greatest act of self-love just because our nature, for me, in my opinion, like we're born from like this beautiful act of creation.

and that we're meant to create in some way, whether it's bake a cake, do stand up, write a song or write a book or start a business. It just very much resonates with me that we can create and that we can also co-create the life that we want to live. And I don't know. That's just where I feel with creativity. And holding my book for the first time when I did, I was like...

my baby and child. And like that moment that you visualize and it just felt like, wow, okay, I listened to my longings and my desires. you know, they may have the whispers may have had to turn into yells at some times. But for me to finally apply the ass to chair and do the thing, like, yeah.

Kristen Chicol (30:53.18)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (31:08.007)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (31:14.94)
Well, thinking about like your book, which is amazing, by the way, I've read it like three times and every time I read it, I'm like, my God, I cannot believe that happened. I totally forgot about that. But it's like, I was thinking about that too. And I think with you having such a plethora of crazy ass experiences, it's like, I know that for every creative, it's like, it's an alchemization of like.

Kristin Birdwell (31:21.752)
You're the one that first reads them, Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (31:39.486)
experience and pain and it's like, it's gonna eat you up if you don't let it out, you know? And so that's why I was also thinking about how badass of an executor you are. mean, you wrote your book, you ghostwrite for other people, you do a podcast, you did a short film, like, you you've done commercials, like, and that's one of the things I think about too and why I've always like looked up to you is because

Kristin Birdwell (31:39.726)
Hmm.

Kristin Birdwell (31:46.574)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (32:06.809)
you just, you are such an executor. And that, you know, I think comes from just like...

just having a real sense of self and knowing because I think for me, was, you've always like known who you were. I mean, and you've learned it, I think earlier than most people, you know, and you've just turned it into something so beautiful and it really is so inspirational. Like,

You know, for me, I always kind of hesitate to pull the trigger on things because I'm like, I don't know. And to just see you kind of be such a trailblazer in your own life, you've always inspired me. Now, I'm going to cry. I wasn't going to say this till the very end. But it was like, to that note, I was thinking about how like, you know, I've always been a creative child and things like that. But it really wasn't until we became friends.

Kristin Birdwell (32:51.502)
No, I'm crying.

Kristen Chicol (33:08.955)
that I felt like something creative was possible for me. And I met someone that valued it the same way that I did. And you and your mom and spending all those nights around the dinner table together and like, I really feel like that's what initially propelled me to feel like I could.

Kristin Birdwell (33:16.782)
you

Kristin Birdwell (33:23.075)
Mm.

Kristen Chicol (33:36.957)
do something like I always kind of just based on like my upbringing and stuff I was always gonna have to be practical I was always gonna have to play small and it really was your friendship and your example since we were 13 till now at 22 that you know like I don't know it's just you've like

Kristin Birdwell (33:43.362)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (33:54.284)
Ha!

Kristen Chicol (34:00.695)
I do not ever want you to underestimate the impact that you've had on my life, truly. Not only as like a creative person, but as a friend.

Kristin Birdwell (34:11.95)
Thank you for that reflection because I feel so grateful for my mom and having still like, yes, but the vision or the belief in dreaming big and that I could do it. And like having those dream big sessions, like those were so pivotal and like making me watch the secret in high school, you know.

Kristen Chicol (34:14.629)
It's true, it's so true.

Kristen Chicol (34:21.594)
Yeah, shout out Janice, you're the best.

Kristen Chicol (34:30.158)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (34:38.492)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (34:41.922)
But I also want to voice that a lot of those accomplishments or acts of art or something too, I think in some ways, some of them came from a sense of unworthiness or feeling unworthy or like that I had to be, if I do this, this and this, I'll be worthy of love or I'll be worthy of the pride or I'll have earned it. And like in the reality, I don't think it's anything that we have to fucking earn. I think it's our birthright to be worthy and to be like we are loved.

Kristen Chicol (34:53.48)
yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (35:11.64)
Like I was reading something that my dad wrote in his book that I have over here that I made him fill out. Cause I'm like, you're going to give me your fucking stories one way or another. And it was like, what was the proudest moment of your life? And I had read this several times, but it hit harder a couple of months ago. And it was like, it was the moment that you were born. And I was like, wow. Or you and your brother, he included him too.

Kristen Chicol (35:21.081)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (35:36.572)
He came later though.

Kristin Birdwell (35:38.464)
Yeah. But I was like, wow, it was never something that I had to earn. He was proud of me since birth. And like I was looking at life through the belief window for so long that that I that I did need like the accomplishment or, whatever. And I do like the arts. I'll totally take the flowers. And I saw something the other day and it resonated. It's like I probably need to give myself more credit or celebrate the things more.

Kristen Chicol (35:46.34)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (36:06.532)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (36:07.36)
always up leveling or expanding the vision that I don't always see it as like you just reflected to me. You know.

Kristen Chicol (36:15.193)
Yeah, yeah, I definitely feel that. two, it's like even though there's a quote, I can't remember who says it, but I love it. And it says, what's most personal is universal.

Kristin Birdwell (36:30.286)
you

Kristen Chicol (36:31.406)
And so it's like, it's those very deep things that we hide away inside ourselves, like alone in a proverbial corner that like everybody's doing that inside. And that's where I think it's those deep, deeper, darker themes that ultimately like is like what entices people to what you've created because it's the acknowledgement through the ownership within yourself that

Kristin Birdwell (36:42.03)
Mm.

Kristen Chicol (37:00.665)
gives people that permission to kind of access that part of them. And that's where I think like, in talking to a friend of mine that does stand up, and he was like, you know, you should get back into it. And I was like, yeah, was like, things aren't exactly going well for me. So I'm usually funnier when shit's going wrong, you know? So that's what I was kind of thinking about too, about like, you know, did you guys miss me? It's only been five years. I'm not back here because things are going well.

Kristin Birdwell (37:03.95)
Hmm.

Kristin Birdwell (37:26.158)
What?

Kristen Chicol (37:30.651)
You know what? It's like, that's 2025. mean, what we got, you know, for better or worse, DT's back in office and I think they're all weird. Yeah. And then it's like aliens, shark volcanoes. Everybody has a billion jobs. Like it's just a, it's just a wild time. So it's like, now I think creativity is more important than ever.

Kristin Birdwell (37:30.997)
you

Kristin Birdwell (37:42.102)
today.

And then we'll take a break.

Kristen Chicol (38:00.343)
And I feel like... What?

Kristin Birdwell (38:00.44)
shit's getting shaken up. I said shit's getting shaken up old ways of being are no longer working. It's like the new earth is coming one

Kristen Chicol (38:08.653)
Yeah. And that's like a really interesting element of creativity for me right now too is because we are so digitally focused between TikTok and Instagram and all of these things. And there's this idea of over saturation, And content creation and results versus experience. So it's just kind of like,

It's an interesting time and I remember, you know, do I think that like half the influencers out there are just kind of worthless? Yeah, but you know what? I can just keep it moving and look at things that interest me because ultimately at the end of the day, it's like anybody that's out there hustling, putting themselves out there, being vulnerable, whether it's with music, with comedy, with selling me like a Stanley cup, it's like, you know what? They're doing, they're, they're doers. And so like nobody that's doing something.

Kristin Birdwell (39:02.562)
Yeah, that's true.

Kristin Birdwell (39:07.088)
on their hustle or doing, yeah.

Kristen Chicol (39:08.416)
Nobody that's doing something is ever gonna hate on somebody that's doing something as well. At least I won't, but it's always the people.

Kristin Birdwell (39:17.006)
Yeah, I know. And if it incites that sense of like judgment or something, it's probably it's an opportunity to get curious. It's like maybe it's revealing a desire or something that you want to pursue or do not necessarily like in the Stanley Cup selling aspect, but in the showing up and in the doing or in the, putting yourself out there being vulnerable or something like that with consistency or not consistency. I don't know.

Kristen Chicol (39:40.463)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (39:45.046)
Yeah, it's definitely the showing up part. think that's like half half the battle.

Kristin Birdwell (39:48.024)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (39:52.654)
but.

Yeah, I don't know. Another thing like, go ahead. You'd love what?

Kristin Birdwell (39:57.016)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (40:05.198)
I'd love to see you do stand up again.

Kristen Chicol (40:07.862)
I would love to see me do stand up again too. Like I've been kind of like, it helps with my loft is just kind of like one big room obviously, but kind of from like the corner of my kitchen, which is like this way to like the corner of my room with, I was like, how dirty is my room? Like where Lewis is over there. I'll just like pace, like by long and like kind of try to like record like elements of it.

And what's crazy is I've recently, didn't even realize that I had these because they weren't labeled, but I was just like kind of going through old recordings. And I have some like recordings from when I did stand up like 10 years ago. And it's just, it's crazy because sometimes I was like, yeah, that's still a good joke. But then other times I'm like, God, but that's the thing too. I feel like as much as we want to pick a lane or pick a, a talent, it's like, we have to let the person change too. And just like,

Kristin Birdwell (40:53.998)
CREATED!

Kristin Birdwell (41:04.078)
You

Kristen Chicol (41:06.168)
You know, let it, we gotta live as much as we.

Kristin Birdwell (41:07.783)
yeah, I mean, I am not in road club.

Kristen Chicol (41:12.973)
I know.

Kristin Birdwell (41:13.646)
It's interesting having a time capsule of that person out there. Like if I were to write it today, I'd probably write it with a little more humor and compassion, know, but it would be a different book.

Kristen Chicol (41:26.82)
But again, it's just like building the muscle. And so much, it's really just like a pendulum, I think, that I'm trying to work on within my own life. It's like the creative part, but I gotta make sure the life part, like having that balance, because I feel like...

Kristin Birdwell (41:29.389)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin Birdwell (41:49.334)
Mmm. You mean like eating in a roof overheads and stuff? That old Maslow shit?

Kristen Chicol (41:54.969)
Yeah, and just like how I show up and approach my own life and self-discipline and all of that stuff. I've definitely been changing things around here in terms of like, okay, I'm just gonna really prioritize my finances, my fitness, all of this stuff. And it's so easy to want to escape, but I just feel like an

Kristin Birdwell (42:01.068)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (42:24.491)
in mostly just like little ways, know, like, kind of like, I'll do my laundry tomorrow, I'll clean tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow. Well, I've tomorrowed my way through like my 20s, you know, and so it's like, I definitely am realizing like,

It's like a different, I feel like my 20s are kind of about reparenting myself through my emotional landscape, but now it's a little bit more about how I show up in the physical world. And kind of like, just balancing it all. But I feel like...

Kristin Birdwell (42:55.778)
Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kristen Chicol (43:08.116)
I maybe when I was of a younger mindset, was like, if I could just do this creative thing and then it'll solve all my problems. And it won't, and it won't. And so I'm like, oh man, you gotta deal with myself first? Fuck. Yeah, but that's also, think.

Kristin Birdwell (43:20.504)
Mm-mm, desert.

Kristin Birdwell (43:27.822)
I'm still here?

Kristen Chicol (43:34.794)
especially like in my lane of like wanting to do stand-up again and it's like I mean I do three shows a night for free when I'm working but it's just like I have to I have to focus more on her and I just It's hard to do that but it's also through that work that is what's gonna make your creative work so much better and That's what's gonna give people kind of like a lighthouse, you know

because so much about comedy for the most part is like the human experience, know, the pain of being alive, you know, if we don't laugh, we cry type thing. I just, I don't know, I'm just, I've always been so drawn to it, but also kind of like, what did you say?

Kristin Birdwell (44:21.538)
I love that line.

I was gonna say I love that lighthouse because that was one of the affirmations that I would repeat to myself on when I was like in the process of writing. And I had something happen or I did a past life regression. Because you mentioned like tomorrowing it through the what 20s or something. How can you do that because we're still in our 20s?

Kristen Chicol (44:32.834)
Mm-hmm.

Kristen Chicol (44:42.114)
Yeah.

That's right. It's been a long two years. Dog years.

Kristin Birdwell (44:54.53)
had a past-life regression on Friday. And so I've always had like a sense of urgency or this thing about like death, like an expiration, like will I get my message or mission accomplished before I die or like, know, like a, and I, so she took me, it was pretty interesting. Like went into this space like between lives. I went back to a lifetime.

where I was running through the woods, was like the 1800s, and I was carrying a message. And I got caught by something. And I was like fucking running, and I'm like, I had to this message. And like running through the woods, and I got caught with the message, and I was a medicine woman, and then the next image that we fast forward to was like, know, in this little thing, I don't know.

Kristen Chicol (45:28.907)
like Paul Revere kind of vibe.

Kristin Birdwell (45:47.982)
the camera can be seen right now, but I was like my head and hands and that thing, you know, where there's no, there is no tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. And like who caught me and it ended up being like someone that I have a sole agreement with in this lifetime too, as well. And I'll tell you who that is. Bradley. And so we have initiated and yeah. And so like we talked about the beliefs.

Kristen Chicol (45:53.73)
like in the old timey shacko thing? Yeah.

you

Kristin Birdwell (46:17.646)
that I had brought over into this lifetime or even if it's running concurrent or whatever. And it was that it was, I did not feel safe. I had to hide or like there's an element of being hidden and there was also like a sense of urgency that to have my message be shared. It's like, no, I'm gonna relax.

Kristen Chicol (46:33.642)
Yeah. Well, I was talking with my friend Courtney. She's the one who went to F1 the other time. she's kind of gotten a lot more into astrology. And I know you and I talked about the North Node and South Node and Pisces and Virgo, because we're kind of all at the same time. And I was like, what does that mean? What does that mean for us?

Kristin Birdwell (46:40.942)
Thank you.

Kristin Birdwell (46:48.844)
and

Kristen Chicol (46:55.484)
And she was talking about it, and I think it was the North node, but don't quote me. And it was basically like how in previous incarnations we were like, again, like people of service, like soldiers, doctors, nurses type stuff. And so this is more about like prioritizing ourselves, even though having kind of like that serving spirit. And I'm like, well, guess my soul didn't get the memo because I was a waitress for 15 years.

Kristin Birdwell (47:01.055)
Thank

Kristin Birdwell (47:15.352)
Mmm.

Kristen Chicol (47:24.374)
But you know what, she's busting out, late bloomers getting out there, breaking through the concrete of the restaurant world.

Kristin Birdwell (47:26.593)
Yeah

Kristin Birdwell (47:30.51)
I know I wanted to look up what my Horos says about my North Nodim Pisces. I'm like, where is this real quick? How do I get there real quick? Oh, yeah. Okay. for, I don't know. I'm looking at Horos app. Let's see. Yeah. Represents your destiny and the direction of your personal growth. The lessons you're meant to learn and path towards fulfilling your potential. Hmm.

On this one it says, North note and Pisces emphasizes spiritual growth, compassion and transcendence. This placement encourages developing intuition, embracing unconditional love and connecting with the divine or universal consciousness. Individuals are called to trust their inner guidance, practice empathy and let go of the need for control. Damn it. The journey involved. Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (48:15.793)
Not my specialty.

Kristin Birdwell (48:17.846)
The journey involves learning to go with the flow, developing artistic or spiritual gifts and finding unity in all things. It's about moving away from overthinking and embracing the magic and mystery of life. This placement challenges you to dissolve boundaries, tap into your imagination and cultivate a deep sense of oneness with the universe. Cool. cool, that kind of tracks with like the creativity.

Kristen Chicol (48:43.165)
Yeah. And that's what I think about too, especially like seeing as many shows as I've seen, like the ones that I've always landed with me are the people that just own the shit out of who they are. And they do it so unapologetically because that's what yields like their, their best work. And you think about like, yeah, we live in such a results content creation, execute, execute, pump it out, pump it out, pump it out. Like it's like, I.

Kristin Birdwell (48:48.119)
Hmm.

Kristin Birdwell (48:54.797)
Yeah.

Now

Kristin Birdwell (49:02.531)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (49:13.309)
I'm really trying to make sure that I focus on the experience of it because it's like that's the energetic signature. That's that feeling that I see every time I'm out there when the headliner comes on and everybody's just like, it's like that's what creates those moments for other people is when you first do it for yourself. And

Kristin Birdwell (49:23.31)
you

Kristin Birdwell (49:29.166)
Mm-hmm. That's what I feel like that's the guy what resonates or the secret sauce is being that an apologetically authentic truth because I think truth resonates. me. I did a little burp. Yeah. The ownership and like instead of like.

Kristen Chicol (49:37.447)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (49:47.413)
Confirmation burp as the tarot readers say on TikTok.

Kristin Birdwell (49:55.17)
putting out there what you think will hit or go viral or like the kind of going back to like what Ribbon Rick, Rick, Rick Rue said about like doing it for the reader, watcher, whatever listener, doing it for yourself and admitting that that like that will pulsate at a different level of vibration than something that it's kind of in a way a more manipulative energy versus what

Kristen Chicol (50:02.6)
Rick Rubin.

Kristen Chicol (50:08.2)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (50:21.34)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (50:23.202)
the truth of being of your essence. And when I see people like Jelly Roll or our bunny or whoever on TikTok, I'm like, it resonates. like, because it's real, they're authentic. that resonates. And then I also watched this video, I think it was Gary Brek or Brek or whatever, whoever that dude is. He talks about how there was like some like measurement of different

Kristen Chicol (50:36.669)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (50:46.452)
I don't know.

Kristin Birdwell (50:50.83)
Emotions and things like that are skills of frequency and stuff and the highest one higher than love is authentic. Yeah, and so I'm like tracks And I feel like I'm just feeling back layers to get to the that and I finally feel like I don't have to hide like it's safe for me to just be who I am

Kristen Chicol (50:59.442)
was authenticity. Yeah.

Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (51:13.67)
Yeah, well that's the thing too that where I feel like part of the part of the reason part of the thing that gets in my way creatively too is is just judgment. It's like I have so many emotions and I'm a deep feeler and I like to just think about like bigger concepts within the world and it's like you know it can life our modern life is designed to be overwhelming.

Kristin Birdwell (51:23.758)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (51:39.923)
And I think that's to keep us small. And so anytime I kind of find myself in the swirl flush of self judgment and criticism, it's like, no, that's what they want. You and I both like, nobody's gonna control me type attitudes. As I said, Taurus, I always say, don't poke the bull if you don't want the horns. So it's like that to me is like,

Kristin Birdwell (51:53.934)
Kristin Birdwell (51:58.732)
Yeah, rebel energy, baby.

Kristin Birdwell (52:05.356)
Mmm.

Kristen Chicol (52:08.645)
the ultimate like middle finger is to just like no say fuck that and like I'm gonna do it my way and I'm gonna be who I am and all of that stuff and it like that's one thing I try to inspire to the youths that I work with because I'm like how old are you like when were you born 2000 okay it's like just just just save yourself time but I do feel like in the same way like god this is how you know we're getting older like I remember like

Kristin Birdwell (52:14.563)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (52:27.191)
No.

Kristen Chicol (52:37.283)
our teachers, like our parents. Like I remember Mrs. Honeycutt, our geometry teacher. She's like, you guys are just like so further ahead than I was at that time. And that's how I feel about like people that I work with. Cause sometimes I'll say stuff I was like, wow. But I guess that's like part of the blessing of technology too is like just that hyper acceleration and hyper awareness. And that's why I think like you think about like the TikTok ban even it was like

Kristin Birdwell (52:47.086)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin Birdwell (52:55.854)
Mm-hmm. Having your tip.

Kristen Chicol (53:06.459)
It has all of the same features essentially of like Instagram, but what separated it beyond ownership and all of that stuff, it was connection and access to information. was, there was just an, that algorithm, I hope that doesn't change it, but it was like, that's what, it was so, I mean, it's gotten a little bit more like recently with all of the TikTok shop, but it's like,

Kristin Birdwell (53:14.828)
Authenticity.

Kristin Birdwell (53:35.726)
Mm-hmm.

Kristen Chicol (53:35.847)
just before that kind of really took off. But I will say too, real quick, everything I bought from the Tic Tac Shop, I fucking loved. I got my little like, bitters for like, know, my Dr. Sebi, but yeah, like I've loved everything. I've loved everything. Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (53:41.547)
Yes.

Kristin Birdwell (53:45.614)
Mouth tape. See the straw lime? Mouth tape. I was going to say something too that I just wanted to squeeze in about judgment. it just came in. Like as I was like, wow, was like, yeah, nobody's going to judge me as hard as I've judged myself. And I've judged myself fucking hard. And it's like, if I can just keep going back to grace and keep going back to grace, then I love what you said about that's what they want.

Kristen Chicol (53:57.351)
Yeah, go for it.

Kristen Chicol (54:04.348)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (54:13.282)
Like the spiral, like that's such a good way to.

Kristen Chicol (54:13.361)
Yeah.

And it's not even just like the big bad overlords, you know, ruining the planet. It's like people, people in your life too, that have their own experiences. And I think that's one thing that I've, I've always, you know,

being someone of service, growing up religious, and that was always kind of like, the I am third, you're always last kind of a thing. Kind of untangling all of that mentally and emotionally has made me realize, in the same way I can absolutely see that the value of someone else, it's like, I have to equally give that back to me. But at the same time,

recognize that everybody's inner world is just as complex as yours, I think. And so it's like, it was a blessing, and back to that, everything's working for you in kind of growing up in that household and those types of thinking because it really made me an observer of people.

Serving tables really made me an observer of people. My trauma made me funny. My funny helped me connect to people. My funny made me money waiting tables because it was just that little like something extra. And so just kind of, but it's hard to like look all of that in the face. And then once you can give that to yourself is when you can really give it to other people. And so that's one thing I always try to remember.

Kristin Birdwell (55:36.152)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin Birdwell (55:46.35)
you

Kristin Birdwell (55:50.562)
Mm-hmm.

Kristen Chicol (55:55.77)
when dealing with challenging people, whether they're a nobody or like a rock star, it's like, everybody's just got their own internal world going on, you know? But it's like, I mean, I can't even really think of one, but I know there have been one where I'm like, God, like they're so incredible on stage, but like they're so like, blah, off stage, you know? But...

Kristin Birdwell (56:09.769)
Mm-hmm.

Kristen Chicol (56:24.772)
I can separate the art from the artist. But at the same time, it's like you never really know what somebody else is going through or been through or what made that. Because when you think about it, like, okay, yeah, maybe like Joe Schmoe's like a dick backstage. But you know what? Think about like, you know, he might be like in the rock and roll hall of fame and his music has affected millions of people for the better, you know? So it's like.

Kristin Birdwell (56:27.214)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (56:32.749)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (56:52.99)
You just never really, like, know your... Yeah!

Kristin Birdwell (56:55.52)
And could it have been just an off day? Or could it have been from that interior life or world? like, just because someone is one way in one moment doesn't mean that they're that way in every moment, you know? Or like a sign, if you're, it's like we're pigeonholing people.

Kristen Chicol (57:01.648)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (57:09.786)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (57:13.856)
into who we think they are in some ways versus like giving them permission to change or evolve or be who they are in that moment. And that could change various like from circumstances to interactions or if they've had enough sleep or.

Kristen Chicol (57:30.897)
What was like your, it was like your, your boy Peter Crone when he's like every time you meet. Ew. If anybody wants to know Kristen's type, it's Peter Crone. Age, accent.

Kristin Birdwell (57:35.026)
I fucking love Peter. He's on my online crush. I'm like, are you single Peter? Mindset, humor.

Kristen Chicol (57:50.801)
And me, I'm like, you're 27? Well, you know, maybe you're like, mature for your age. No, but it was like, allow every time you meet somebody to be like the first time you're meeting up, even though it's, yeah, yeah, it's so true. Yeah, but it's so, so true. And that's when, like to give you your flowers again. And I think that that's also what's like,

Kristin Birdwell (58:03.576)
That's what I got that. I'll get credit where credit's due.

Kristen Chicol (58:17.966)
was part of not just seeing how creative you were and how you were inspired by some of the same things that I was. was like, you just always have, and I feel like you've taught me how to be open to others in a way, because I think kind of just with how I grew up and just both what was happening at home sometimes and then what was happening and like.

the world, was like I always felt like I had to make myself invisible in a way. And so with you, it's like you just had such an embrace of people. Like I remember even being in high school because okay folks, guess what? Kristen was a cheerleader.

Kristin Birdwell (58:51.438)
Hmm.

Kristin Birdwell (59:02.422)
No, that was junior high. I didn't make it in high school. Let's clarify that.

Kristen Chicol (59:05.68)
Okay, in junior high, Kristen was the cheerleader. And in high school, I guess she couldn't make it, but you know, she still like, could hang out with the cool kids type thing. And I was like, the girl that could like, hang out with like, the artsy kids playing hacky sack, like by the vending machine, or like Kristen by association type, type of thing I feel like. But it's like, you've always just been so open with people. And that's why I just

Kristin Birdwell (59:07.534)
Yeah. For one year.

you

Kristen Chicol (59:35.31)
That's to me so interlinked, like the emotional safety with creativity and I have so much like credit I feel to give you for that. But also like, there's one more thing I was gonna say but I forgot it. Fuck. It'll come to me, it'll boomerang.

Kristin Birdwell (59:48.046)
Well, I just had a realization. Yeah, it'll come back if it needs to come back. I just had a realization that when I talk about high school to people, like, it was a small town and like everybody was friends with everybody. Like the jocks hung out with the cowboys. I was like, wait, that was my experience. It necessarily wasn't everyone's experience. Like because I loved everybody. And then I, you know, in my questionable...

Kristen Chicol (01:00:07.319)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (01:00:12.736)
decisions like I remember being in a like druggy house like my junior senior year I think it was my senior year and you know who I was dating then yeah they're like fly strips and you know people doing people doing some drugs out of certain devices and that was not a plant and but I remember thinking yeah but I remember thinking that then

Kristen Chicol (01:00:20.899)
I think I might have come with you and I was looking at you like...

Kristen Chicol (01:00:35.597)
Little bit more pharmaceutical.

Kristin Birdwell (01:00:41.07)
They're like, you don't want to do this, but you're not judging us. I mean, not to say that I never did it. I'm all owned up to that. But I just remember thinking like I can learn something from everybody. Even if I don't want to do or even if that's how I not, don't want to be show up or be in the world. But like I can I'll get in that. And I have this little sense of naivety, how you say the word, a little bit naive sometimes and probably a little bit too trusting at times.

Kristen Chicol (01:00:55.833)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (01:01:11.234)
but I do truly believe that I can learn from anybody. And also I love people's stories and who they are. And I'm curious about their makeup, about their interior world and like what made them and the beliefs and the people that impacted them or like what books they read or what music they listened to. Like I love people and.

Kristen Chicol (01:01:18.041)
same.

Kristen Chicol (01:01:31.008)
Yeah, well you said a great word that made me think of like that's something that's like been truly helping me get unstuck a lot of the times, whether it be from creative block or like self criticism, self judgment. And it's like to me, the ultimate spot is of neutrality creatively is curiosity. That's always going to serve you. And that's what I feel like some of the artists that I've enjoyed the

Kristin Birdwell (01:01:50.766)
Mmm.

Kristen Chicol (01:01:56.09)
watching and working with have been the people that just said like, fuck the rules. I'm just gonna do what I want to do. And that to me, know, especially it's like, can anything new be done? It's like, it's, I feel like we're really seeing in music and writing and film, the fusion of genres, food, like it's just how, how taking the things that resonate and like fusing them together, which is

Kristin Birdwell (01:02:04.142)
Mm-hmm.

Kristen Chicol (01:02:24.268)
very much like the creative journey process that we put it out. yeah, think curiosity is super underrated.

Kristin Birdwell (01:02:33.934)
That's one of my values. Definitely one of my values. And I've always had to say that.

Kristen Chicol (01:02:35.796)
Yeah, because it's like if you can't get out of, I'm not sure where the story is going to go next or everything I write is shit. Like it's just like, well, what if I looked at it this way? What if I worked from how I want it to be to the beginning and just like,

Kristin Birdwell (01:02:49.486)
Hmm.

Kristin Birdwell (01:02:53.558)
Yeah, what if I allow myself to be surprised? What if I just play?

Kristen Chicol (01:02:57.982)
Yeah, play I think is also very undervalued and I think that curiosity is kind of like the foot that keeps the door open for play to kind of wedge its way in, you know what I mean?

Kristin Birdwell (01:03:00.782)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin Birdwell (01:03:08.8)
for sure. Play is one of my, like I, well, I think, you know, I started this year off, not usually how I feel. Like, because usually I feel like such a sense of renewal and like, it's a new year and a reset. I usually feel that way. I don't really make resolutions, but I'm always like, new year. But, and so, but I didn't feel that really. And I want to say that.

Kristen Chicol (01:03:20.119)
not me, girl.

Kristin Birdwell (01:03:36.204)
or voice it to give permission to like to be in like we're in fucking winter. And like if you think about like the cyclical living or seasonal living like shit blooms in spring. And just so that's kind of how I felt a bigger a big sense of relief or a veil being lifted or I've had some relief since the beginning of the year thankfully. But I came up with a little formula is what I was gonna say. Usually I pick a word.

Kristen Chicol (01:03:47.469)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (01:04:03.726)
to go into the year. I'm like, one more, I ain't gonna cut it this year. I'm gonna create my own formula. But play is part of my formula.

Kristen Chicol (01:04:06.754)
Hehehehehe

Kristen Chicol (01:04:13.994)
Is that copyrighted, formula? Care to share with the class?

Kristin Birdwell (01:04:16.864)
No, no, let me see. Let me yeah, let me see. Let me pull it up real quick. Formula. Okay. Yeah, I said from the tub with all the oils roses sugar scrub. I visualize all the shit that no longer serves going down the drain. It's not like I usually pick a word, but I'm picking a formula. in parentheses, I have because I had a really good year the year I picked pleasure as my word.

And I mean that and like doing what pleases me is like listening to my truth. Like what pleases me one day, like a week or so ago, I like, I just want to fucking lay in bed all day and read. That's what I want to do. That's what's going to bring me the most pleasure. So I did it. But like, so in parentheses, it's play and pleasure, play plus pleasure. And then another plus sign, presence plus or in passions. And so.

equals I like I was going p's priestess yeah priestess purpose and prosperity baby because I also was thinking the other day I was like I've been asking for abundance I think I need to get more specific about financial abundance or prosperity because I've been getting an abundance of lessons or an abundance of

Kristen Chicol (01:05:12.365)
Big pussy energy.

Kristen Chicol (01:05:21.868)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (01:05:34.465)
Yeah... Yeah...

Kristin Birdwell (01:05:35.807)
or insights. And I totally believe that the divine has like a sense of humor to it that should be fucking doing stand up.

Kristen Chicol (01:05:46.207)
I know, I know, I know. I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it. I've been, that's the thing, I've been consistently just blocking out time. And even if I don't have the joke or the meat of it yet, it's like, I wanna write a joke about this. Or I wanna write a joke about this. Or even in the middle, I think one of the things that would be kind of cool would be to fuse the worlds of.

Kristin Birdwell (01:06:03.982)
Hmm.

Kristen Chicol (01:06:13.653)
worry about right now because it's like I still kind of have a foot in serving, working at a restaurant part time still. And then I'm in this whole other new world with live music. And then what I, you know, one of the things that I'm really gravitating towards right now is comedy. And it's like, everybody I think, because you know, I've been able to like get people in shows and stuff and they're like, you have like the coolest job and it is so cool. Like sometimes I'm like, I cannot believe I get paid to do this.

Kristin Birdwell (01:06:34.798)
Yeah

Kristen Chicol (01:06:43.092)
And it's like, to just kind of let people peek behind the curtain, you know? Kind of just talking, because I feel like that's going to be something that's going to instantly grab people. And just kind of being able to weave the humanity that I see behind the stage with, or backstage with what I see out in the rest of the world, because it's very, very similar.

Kristin Birdwell (01:07:07.246)
think people like the whole behind the scenes element in Flare too.

Kristen Chicol (01:07:11.656)
Yeah, I mean obviously I would do it in a way where I make sure I keep my job but remember folks this is all allegedly, for entertainment purposes only.

Kristin Birdwell (01:07:16.846)
Yeah. Or like not name me. Allegedly. Would you ever out anyone or or make a specific? I would. Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (01:07:27.312)
No, no, never, never by name. But I might say like the real mean potatoes situation. But for the most part, like, everybody's been great. And especially like working with like some comedians that I've seen, I would say I, there's not like a ton that comes through compared to music, but like, there's definitely been some that stood out.

Kristin Birdwell (01:07:33.505)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (01:07:53.918)
And just kind of like one of the ones that I really, really enjoyed was pretty much everybody knows who he is. name's Morgan Jay. He's the auto-tune guy like, what's your name, bro? And he's got kind of a stash.

Kristin Birdwell (01:08:10.438)
Let me Google this real quick. I'm like Morgan J. I know Morgan Mullen. Morgan J. I mean he looks familiar. Okay. He looks Don't know if I know.

Kristen Chicol (01:08:12.467)
You would know him if you saw him. And he blew up.

Close, close.

Kristen Chicol (01:08:25.163)
I bet you've seen like, well he like blew up on TikTok too and that's the thing. Like he, I think even made a post like this app like changed my life, my career. But I mean, he's just been blowing up like crazy. He was originally booked for two shows in one night. They like pretty much sold out instantly. So they added a second night the next day for a third show, which also ended up selling out. But one thing that was kind of cool was the first day,

Normally we don't have to get there until like way later compared to like the amount of prep it takes to like build certain elements on stage for a music performance. And he had picked Dallas, I think it was like one out of two or three cities to get footage for an upcoming special. He couldn't say who it was, but if I had to guess, I would say I would think like probably Netflix or something. But that was really cool to kind of just

Kristin Birdwell (01:09:13.73)
Mmm.

Kristin Birdwell (01:09:18.19)
I'm here.

Mm-hmm.

Kristen Chicol (01:09:24.809)
be able to watch from front of house, which is like the little island for lighting and audio in the center of the room. To just see that production element, because obviously it's an outside crew coming in for cameras and setting up and things like that. And he had a meet and greet before the first show on the first day, and that was the show day that I worked. So I got to see him do two shows.

Kristin Birdwell (01:09:31.267)
Really?

Kristen Chicol (01:09:51.154)
And lot of it is so interactive with the audience and improvisational in that sense. He kind of has a framework for it, of course, but just to kind of see the focus, because obviously you don't expect him to be the persona that they are on stage, but he was honestly a little bit more quieter. And I think obviously that comes from the idea of this is part of him filming a special. So he was super laser focused.

And he just was very kind of technical with it, testing. he has, I think it was his manager, Topher maybe was his name, that plays keys and he plays guitar. He's super musical. it was interesting to just kind of watch how he did it. And we were running a little bit behind. Nothing crazy. But so they're like, well, we're going to have to let some of the meet and greet people come in already, even though you're still kind of adjusting cameras.

Kristin Birdwell (01:10:48.718)
No.

Kristen Chicol (01:10:50.91)
and things like that. So he's like, you know, doing his thing. And then it wasn't even that big of a meet and greet for the first show, I don't think, but it was maybe like a couple rows of people. And, you know, he's kind of like communicating with front of house, the camera people, his guy. And then as he's doing that, he sees these people and they're just kind of like, you know, watching him get set up. But it was the coolest thing in that he like slowly, like just in the slowest way turned the dial from.

like Morgan the person and Morgan the comic. And it was just like so subtle, but I was just like, wow, that was like magical to watch. And there's like a portion of the show where like people come on stage and like it's so interactive. And that's what I think why he blew up so much as much as he did because people feel a part of it, you know? And I think that that, and he's so, so good at it. And he is such a class act.

Kristin Birdwell (01:11:28.152)
Wow.

Kristin Birdwell (01:11:41.955)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (01:11:47.621)
on stage and off, so that's definitely, I was like, as much as I was enjoying it, and that's part of it when I watch comedy too, it's like, there's an element of a technical eye sometimes, it's hard to turn it off, so when they achieve that of being able to immerse you in it, but also you're kind of like, I'm gonna take a couple notes here, that was pretty good, it's like how they approach things, yeah, it's just like, I get inspired so much when I'm there, and that's why I think like.

Kristin Birdwell (01:11:57.452)
And we'll.

Kristin Birdwell (01:12:05.601)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (01:12:11.768)
I want to come to a show. I know people.

Kristen Chicol (01:12:13.201)
You have to, I'll get you in girl. But yeah, and it's like, it kind of is like that yin and yang, mirror of like, as much as I'm, I feel like I've been given from the blessings of all of these shows that I've gotten to work and the people that I've gotten to work with. It's like, I also see like, that's something that I can give other people. And I can serve people in a way that serves me too. And that's what I think like.

Kristin Birdwell (01:12:40.637)
Mm-hmm.

Kristen Chicol (01:12:42.843)
one of the most successful examples of what creativity is, you know?

Kristin Birdwell (01:12:47.15)
Yeah. No, I think it makes me think of the meet and greet that I did with Bunny, uh, 2023, I think. I didn't realize I fucking love her and she's so inspirational to me. I, um, I didn't realize that I went to her first one until like later on TikToks when she was like saying it was the first one. It just happened to be like where the tour ended. Um, that I was on with the BMW and so.

Kristen Chicol (01:12:54.279)
I love her. I just love her.

Kristen Chicol (01:13:11.506)
Go.

Kristin Birdwell (01:13:14.354)
And then Jelly came in there to like say hi, which that wasn't promised or anything. It just surprised everybody. Like, I'm like, holy shit, there's no like. But he wanted to support her because she was nervous for her first meet and greet. And like, so it was really interesting also to see the the energy shift whenever she came in, whenever he came in. And then whenever I went up to like get my photo and like meet her.

Like I was like a little nervous but I also just wanted to drop in and tell her like how inspiring she was to me. like at first there was a shift in energy whenever she's like my god girl you're so beautiful. And I'm like you are. like this is all a facade. I'm like I've got 30 seconds with you. Like I'm not gonna wait for me waste it on that. like.

you know, as a sex worker for the last X amount of years, like you're so inspiring, you show what's possible. And like immediately it felt like a grounded or like sense of energy or just like a real authentic connection between two people. And then that's when she was like, how many people are with you? Do you want to go side stage? Like that sort of thing. And then whenever you're talking about the meet and greets, I just kind of had like a ping visualization. I'm like, my God.

Kristen Chicol (01:14:23.869)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin Birdwell (01:14:38.03)
I'm gonna have meet and greets one day. We're gonna have meet and greets one day. Like I'm going to also visualize that's like a good visual. Now this could be our Milky Way millennial who knows we could be doing a podcast tour one day.

Kristen Chicol (01:14:44.316)
I'm gonna be at her meet and greets. I'll be like, yes, I will herd your purse and take the photo. Honestly, that's what's kind of, that's what's kind of funny too. Like sometimes like you'll see people on tour and you're like, what is their role? Like I don't really like see them necessarily doing, and then like the meet and greet rolls around and they're the person that's like, next. And it's like their friend. And I'm like, yes, I respect that. I do not judge that at all. Make me your iPhone photographer, please. And your meet and greets. I would love it.

Kristin Birdwell (01:15:04.693)
Hahaha!

Kristin Birdwell (01:15:11.918)
You're all at the table with me.

Kristen Chicol (01:15:16.367)
man. But yeah, that's when things like, like I think one of my arguably, it's so hard, but this is definitely in my top three of my favorite concerts I've ever worked. Like it was one of those days where I'm just like.

wow, that day was like a movie because it wasn't even so much about my day, even though it was in a way, because I think it was one of the first times I started like training to stage manage and it was for Benson Boone. And it was like, it was like right before, it was April 23rd, it was the day after my birthday. And it was right before he was like basically exploding. Like that song, the beautiful things and that stuff was like, the album had just released.

Kristin Birdwell (01:15:47.977)
I love that song.

Kristen Chicol (01:16:03.624)
But it was like one of those situations where you're like, okay, like this kid's never gonna play a venue this size again. It's gonna be, and then I think like literally like three weeks later he was playing Wembley Stadium with Taylor Swift. But like one of the, and he's like, I think he's literally like 21. And his merch guy, one of his security, who is so sweet, he had two photographers, but one was also kind of like facilitating the VIP.

And I think that was it, but they were like all his like childhood friends. But you know what, like I kind of like went to their Instagrams afterwards, the photographers, incredible, amazing. The merch guy was just such a sweetheart, so on top of it. The security guy was like kind of like a goofy kind of tenterboy, you know, and I just love that he was like taking his...

Kristin Birdwell (01:16:40.37)
yeah!

Kristen Chicol (01:17:01.743)
friends along for the ride, you know, and they just, and they were just all so young, like they literally were like throwing a football from like the balcony down to the stage, you know, and, and just stuff like that. And I was just like, I just love that element because it really is the people that you're around. And that's why I think about like embracing that authenticity is so important. And I think that's why like the industry eats so many people up is because they're not being authentic to what

Kristin Birdwell (01:17:03.956)
hell yeah.

Kristen Chicol (01:17:29.745)
their speaks to their creative spirit, know, like what's in their soul and they're just executing something for results for profit. And that's why, you know, if you stand for nothing, you're fall for anything, you get swayed, you get pulled apart. So I just really respected that, like that and like, I'm pretty sure like they didn't drink at all either. And they're all of age. And I was just like, yes, they're just like focused on like the love of it and the music. And I watched an interview with him actually with Benson after.

Kristin Birdwell (01:17:37.742)
with us.

Kristin Birdwell (01:17:50.606)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (01:17:58.437)
the show because I was just so impressed with what was happening on stage and off. And he actually was on American Idol when he was like 18 and he auditioned and he had a really great audition. He like didn't even know he could sing. Like he wasn't one of those like I've been singing since I was whatever. I he was like, yeah, I've been singing for a year. And he was kind of getting advanced in the competition. And I think he might have made it to the live rounds, but he like quit or something. He quit. He definitely didn't get voted off.

Kristin Birdwell (01:18:05.596)
Kristin Birdwell (01:18:18.456)
Mm.

Kristin Birdwell (01:18:25.047)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (01:18:27.322)
But he decided in the interview that I saw, think it was something like, didn't want to be known as the guy that made it because I was on American Idol. I wanted to be made as the person because I made hit records. And just to have that kind of like self belief at that age, I totally think that again speaks to like probably how he's raised, but also like the company that you keep and just the fact that he had the heart to like give that to others and seeing him in the meet and greet and the way he was with the fans. Like he was just such a

Kristin Birdwell (01:18:35.47)
you

Kristin Birdwell (01:18:45.752)
Bye.

Kristen Chicol (01:18:57.07)
class act and I was talking to his tour manager, he was this really lovely British guy and I was like, man, you know, I was like, was just, I was just,

thinking about how like, kind of what I mentioned earlier, like, oh no, he's never gonna play a venue this size. So it was kind of like, it felt kind of special to watch. And I was like, man, the last time I had that feeling, was like, ironically, it was a long, long time ago and I had gotten tickets to see Adele at the House of Blues. Oh, well, you know, look, that's where I work people. You can bleep it out. But I was like,

Kristin Birdwell (01:19:19.298)
Yeah. I'm here.

Kristin Birdwell (01:19:30.598)
Or we can bleep it out.

Kristen Chicol (01:19:38.552)
And I just, and she, that was around the time when she had to cancel for like her throat surgery or whatever. And I was like, God, she's never gonna play that size again. Like, you know, and I think she was like at American Airlines after she recovered. And I was like, I was like, that just kind of what that reminds me of. And he was like, you know, it's funny. And they like popped open his road case and showed me like he'd been working with her since the beginning. And so I was just like, it's, it's like such a small world. And

Kristin Birdwell (01:19:49.901)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (01:19:59.085)
my god. I could be chilled.

Kristen Chicol (01:20:03.781)
And what's kind of crazy too, like you see these little moments of humanity, this is another thing that I just thought was so adorable, was depending on the show not always, but definitely for him because it was just like, I mean you would have thought the Beatles were there because it was all just like screaming women and girls. And so afterwards that's when it like kind of.

gets a little chaotic because it's like some of the security is like kind of tidying up the room. We have all the stagehands like breaking down with their side of the tour and whatever. But also we have to allocate a lot of security back by the artist's entrance because you know, set up the barricades around the buses and stuff. And there were so many and sometimes, know, when I know it's gonna be a little bit like chaotic and I have to wait so they can get out of the green rooms or whatever. Like I'll just go out there kind of people watch, know, see what's up.

Kristin Birdwell (01:20:54.542)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (01:20:55.013)
And so I was standing there with one of my homies who was working the door for the security there. And of course he walks out and they just erupt and screaming and he's kind of going by saying thank you. And then he's going around waving. And of course he had his cool little outfit on. And I see this moment, because me and Josh are just kind of standing talking, and he has this like, and then he ends up coming back over to us and he comes over to shake our hands.

But it was so cute because to me how I read it was like, because you know Josh and I are older than him. Like you can tell we're in our 30s or whatever. It was almost like the, oh but those are like the older kids, you know? So then he just kind of comes over and he's like, thank you so much for everything, like helping me. I was just like, what a lovely fellow. So I was like, that was one of those things where I'm like, I'm always gonna root for somebody like that. And it's just cool to just see those.

younger generations like inspiring you in that way. Not just in terms of what they do creatively, but how they live their lives, you know? I think it's easy, yeah, it's easy when you get older to be like, I can't learn anything from somebody who hasn't even lived life yet. But it's like, no, that's on you. Actually, you can.

Kristin Birdwell (01:22:07.288)
and

Yeah, yeah or discredit them because of their age or look or something I think I would imagine that it would help keep you know people grounded too if you have those homies with you that have you know been on the journey with you of knowing you from X point to a point or whatever, you know Versus if you reach a certain level and then you're surrounding yourself by yes people

Kristen Chicol (01:22:14.476)
Yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (01:22:36.012)
or people that are like that wanting something from you or your question maybe the intentions behind friendships or relationships or something, I don't know. I could see where that.

Kristen Chicol (01:22:47.468)
And you kind of think about it in that specific circumstance too. was like, it was him having the courage to pursue his creativity the way that he wanted that ultimately put him in that position. He was smart enough to surround himself with the people that could help keep that grounded. But then also he gave an avenue for like the photographers and stuff, you know, like to capture this work, to have those experiences, both just like

Kristin Birdwell (01:23:06.414)
I'm sorry.

Hmm.

Kristen Chicol (01:23:16.662)
with him personally traveling the world, but also getting that kind of content for their portfolios and stuff. creativity is always gonna breed more creativity and connection, and I just thought he was doing a beautiful job of that. So shout out, Benson.

Kristin Birdwell (01:23:23.758)
For sure.

Kristin Birdwell (01:23:30.53)
Yeah, yeah, not coming from a place of scarcity like, I have to hoard all of this like opportunity. Actually, yeah, there's room and space for for both for all of our, you know, creativity and outlets and stuff. And then, and I just feel like that's beautiful. I like to find winning my friends are winning.

Kristen Chicol (01:23:36.182)
Yeah, or I can't quit American Idol.

Kristen Chicol (01:23:45.228)
Yeah.

Kristen Chicol (01:23:52.312)
That's right, squad going on payroll,

Kristin Birdwell (01:23:59.106)
Well, honey, I've got a pee and I'm going to turn up the heat in my apartment. Is there any? I love you so much. This has been such a good combo.

Kristen Chicol (01:24:03.428)
Love you.

Kristen Chicol (01:24:07.596)
I'm gonna send you some voice notes because I gotta update you on my very thin roster but you No!

Kristin Birdwell (01:24:14.19)
I mean, unless you want to spill the tea here. no, Boudreaux barked and I need to let him out too.

Kristen Chicol (01:24:24.768)
I know I gotta feed Wasabi and myself, but I love you! Bye!

Kristin Birdwell (01:24:27.886)
I love you too. Wait one second.