63. Messy, Magical, & Meaningful: Your Story & Your Cycle with Lunden Souza

Join Kristin and Lunden Souza, a Life Coach, NLP Practitioner, podcast host, and member of the NABA community, as they explore the beauty in life’s messiness and the wisdom of embracing their natural cycles. Together, they dive into how aligning with their energy levels can transform chaos into clarity, spark creativity, and inspire leadership.

Through personal stories and actionable insights, Kristin and Lunden discuss the power of rest, storytelling, and rewriting their narratives to turn challenges into growth. This empowering and heartfelt conversation is one you won’t want to miss!

Jump to the mic drop moments...
0:00 Intro
6:52 Rest, Recovery, and the Power of Listening to Your Body
15:39 Discovering the True Meaning of Pride and Acceptance
26:08 The Importance of Rage, Grief, and Sacred Expression
35:22 Being Messy Without Hurting Others
46:36 Honoring the Maternal Instinct in All Forms
52:33 The Power of Affirmations in Creative Writing

Connect with Lunden:
Instagram: @‌lifelikelunden
Facebook: Life Like Lunden
Website: lifelikelunden.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LundenSouza

Check out Lunden’s podcast here too:
Self Love and Sweat THE PODCAST

Kristin's Best-Selling Book:
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sex, Drugs, & Soul on Amazon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify Audiobook Link⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Subscribe to the Podcast:
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Do you want to reset, expand, and feel more alive? Learn more about Naba and the community detox journey here.

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 6:52 Rest, Recovery, and the Power of Listening to Your Body
• 15:39 Unconditional Love: Discovering the True Meaning of Pride and Acceptance
• 26:08 Releasing Emotion: The Importance of Rage, Grief, and Sacred Expression
• 35:22 Being Messy Without Hurting Others
• 40:53 Story Doula: Birthing Your Own Narrative
• 46:36 Honoring the Maternal Instinct in All Forms
• 52:33 The Power of Affirmations in Creative Writing

Transcript

Kristin Birdwell (00:01.902)
I am feeling alive. I, know, earlier this morning I was having some weird eye glitch thing. It was just like twitching. like, what's going on here? Um, but I'm feeling good. I'm excited to chat with you about all things messy. Um, and just lean into that and go where we need to go. Yeah, same. Eye glitch.

Yeah, it was weird. I was trying to do like some eyeliner, not eyeliner, mascara and I'm like, why? It's like, it was weird. It had like a like kind of ethereal sparkly thing in the corner of my eye. I'm like, what is this? So I put some eye drops in. I'm like,

We're going to roll with it today. Right. guess for the video where I glitch might be apparent, it's not, but at least you don't need your eyes to talk about the mess today. I starting to see spirits now too? I'm like, what is this? What's happening? We are on the winter solstice. I'm like, today the first day of the winter solstice? You know, it's the 21st. today's the 21st. Yeah.

I had to look down at my calendar at the bottom of my computer screen to be like, what day is it? Where are we at? Yeah. You get a pass. Well, I'm so excited to talk with you today. I've met you in person. We've chatted a little bit. I don't know a ton about you.

I know I feel drawn and connected to you and was really excited. I know we wanted to record last weekend and we had to move some things around and here we are. we were messaging in our Naba community about messy and being messy and embracing the mess. And I think both of us, without TMI, but I don't really care, we're both in the

Kristin Birdwell (02:13.954)
the season of our cycle of which it can feel a little bit messier. And so we both showed up anyways and we were like, yep, we're synced up and let's press record and let's use it for both of our podcasts. So then we don't have to record twice and go to that. You know, and I'm totally going to lean into that. You know, there's some like ancient wisdom for women though, when they're on their cycle that, I feel like I get more.

Maybe like downloads are intuitive or inspirational, like ideas. do crave more rest during that time, but I am like totally wanted to honor our commitment and do this too. Um, so I think there's like definitely something sacred and like, and like for me, like speaking of being messy, it's one of the things of being messy. Um, and just honoring that and like, and for a long time, I had to even shift my relationship around that. Cause I think there was like some.

There's some shame or, you know, I remember feeling embarrassed. if my mom told my grandma and stuff, then even when I got my period. Um, and so it's like, I really coming to honor and like treat that as sacred and like honor the cycles of being a woman versus like it being something to be afraid of or, or shamed or if my emotions are heightened, I know I get more, um, even it seems more sensitive around the certain times like luteal and then the actual bleed too. Um,

I don't know if you feel that way. Yeah, I think for a long time, I didn't embrace the different phases of our cycle and the different seasons that we as women experience throughout a monthly cycle. And my background is in fitness. And that was like my last lifetime of a career and what I, yeah, what I leaned into and it was a big chunk of my life. And I remember.

um, feeling, like you said, the guilt and the shame or the frustration around being tired and being a little bit more, um, in need of rest and maybe stretching and chilling. And I always felt like, Oh, you just got to keep going. And I remember we didn't think we were, yeah, I didn't think we were going to start it on this topic, but I love it. But I remember when I was personal training, uh, yeah.

Kristin Birdwell (04:36.098)
a long time ago, over 10 years ago. And I had this one client who would often cancel her sessions when she was on her period. And I now I'm like, get it sister. Then I in my head, the story was like, okay, what do you mean you're on your period? Like you, this was our commitment, do your workout, just work through it, take some Advil and let's go, you know? And now

it's definitely not that way. Like if I need more time for rest, I track my cycle. I use the flow app. So I'm always checking it every day, logging my symptoms, and just noticing where I'm at, even proactively, like, you know, those few days leading up to my cycle and the first couple of days, like that five to seven day window is just like pump the breaks time a little bit in a lot of ways, you know, feels better.

Totally. I've leaned into like what workouts during different time periods of my cycle. if I'm in, you know, if I'm in ovulation or if I'm in like one of the, other before luteal, I'm like, okay, I, I'm into hit and I'm into like more energy. But once it starts to get later, I'm like, okay, I want a little more yoga. I want a little more walking outside or just like some rest or nature. And then sometimes I just want like freaking horizontal time and just rest and journal.

book, the same for you. you know, and I feel like in our culture, too, there's just like so much like, go, go, go, do, do, do. Your worth is around your productivity. And that's really something that you know, it's served me in so many different time periods in my life of like getting things done and accomplishments, but at the same time, like kind of distancing myself from that and being in leaning into I'm worthy whether I do x, y, or not. And so

Just kind of, it's like I'm having this shift and like I honor and I'm grateful for the time periods in my life where it was like, okay, I needed to do these things to feel loved, to feel accepted, to get, you know, attention from my parents or whatever it was, or be, you know, a good human or an achieving adult in the world. But now it's like, no, actually I'm worthy without it. I still have like lots of dreams and things I want to get done, but how can I do this in a way that like honors the truth of my present moment and you my body.

Kristin Birdwell (06:52.429)
takes care of it and that sort of thing too. And beyond exercise as well, you know, as a woman in leadership and having multiple businesses, I know that you're holding the fort down to learning the different phases of our cycle and when it's, when it feels good to be creative, when it feels good to be more.

line it up, knock it down, get shit done when you're in that phase where, like, I don't want to say, the debate's not the word that I'm thinking of, negotiations, being more, you know, in that follicular phase, ovulation, where it's like, okay, those are when I want to have the tough conversations and when it makes sense to be more in that, let's say, yeah, masculine energy of...

talking about, you know, the tough things, money, all that kind of stuff versus, you know, later on in my cycle where it might be a little bit more, you know, which I love, which I love. But, I always wondered like, you know, why can't I do this sometimes but not, and as I leaned into more of the different phases of my cycle, I'm starting to learn.

when to schedule certain things and when not. And I also have a lot of women on my team. honoring them and being like, Hey, I know that we're going to be like doing this wave together. So if you need something or if it's a hard day, like feel free to communicate that with me. It's not too much information. It's good. If you're having a moment of being tired or low energy, you know, and then there'll be times where I'm sure you feel this too, or we feel more productive. And it's like a day is like getting shit done.

That feels so good. sure. And like now on this phase of like the next, know, three to seven days, it's I very much lean into, okay, what intuitive insights are coming in or like, what could I like create? There's a lot of creativity in that space too. I've been playing with like laying in the fertile void. And like, because I, towards the end of the year, it comes up that I, you know, I feel a little bit more burnout. I'm like, how do, how can I nourish myself?

Kristin Birdwell (09:05.183)
And get ready for, get ready for the year, also honor like the season too. and lean into and like sitting in the fertile void. Cause I love Abraham Hicks and I think you do too. I've some places where you listen to things in the morning and some of the things that I listened to recently was like doing nothing is doing something and that is getting in receptive mode to, you know, help bring in some of the things that are already in your vortex. And I'm like,

I needed to hear that and I just needed to sit and journal or just like lay there and not do anything until something comes up and like inspires me. Yeah. Like not looking, in our outer world, but going within. I listened to Abraham Hicks pretty much every morning when I wake up, she has like these little under 15 minute cartoon.

cartoony videos that are on YouTube. And I put that on whichever one YouTube's algorithm decides to pop up, right? Because I listened to her so much, there's always one that's there. And I'm like, that's the one. That's the one I need to listen to. But yeah, growing up with the conditioning of more is more and doing is better. And I remember being in college, going to school full time, working seven days a week and telling my grandpa.

aren't you so proud of me? I work seven days a week and I'm going to school full time. I wasn't like a straight A college student, but A's and B's was doing really well, you know? And I remember like holding that as a trophy and being, you know, like, but it was interesting because I have a group chat with my family and my niece and my brother and my niece's mom. And we always are just, it's pretty much just all about my niece, pictures, what she's up to, updates from school, just all the things.

And she said something where she was like, yeah, mom, I don't want to go to that today. It was like a Christmas parade. I just need to stay home and rest. I just want to rest. And I was like, yes. I love that. And I wrote in the chat, was like, yes, I love that she knows what she wants and needs. I love that in her generation where she's at in our family line, that's available to her.

Kristin Birdwell (11:24.065)
Cause for us it was, and it was just like, let's go line it up, knock it down, wake up Saturday, do your chores, get things done. Like don't be lazy, like get to work. And I just love that she knows that at the wise age of six years old. I'm just like, I love it. what a good, like role model role model. And just like to have her understanding of what she needs in wants to.

thrive at that age. you know, it kind of reminds me of a story that came up for me recently. an interesting life. like yesterday was my, would have been my dad's 71st birthday and he died in 2013. And there's been a lot of like interesting, experiences, like whether it was with plant minus sign, put medicine, psychedelics, with ketamine therapy,

There's a lot of different things, but I will say, mentioned Naba, like I'm doing a course in there. Which one? It's going to be doing about writing and writing a chapter Oh, you're making a course. thought you meant you were doing one. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. know. And so anyways, it's like basically what I'm saying is like, I had always kind of similar to you, I felt like if I get that A's on a roll.

Then my dad loves and accept me. got money. It was like a bonus or something like that. And so I point out this little sheet, this little, I gotta just show you because it's like so special for me. But it's a special like little group of questions that my dad did. And I'm telling you that stories basically have

the power to incredible impact and trends. can't think of the word right now.

Kristin Birdwell (13:27.757)
Cover time, like, okay, basically he gave me this freaking, I can't think right now. I'm like such a big heart and brain fart. Brain fart? Brain fart right now. Jesus. Wow. Talk about some like brain farts. Okay. So anyway, I had like my whole entire life thought that I had to act in like this. And so I found that like,

I was like shopping and, or like perusing through this like book. and the book says, for those of you listening, yes, says my dad, right? So it's like, dad, his story says words and I had always wanted his story to like, to know more about him. He is like very reserved, but he gave me this and it was one of the get best gifts that I've ever owned. It's probably like one of my most private, private, and prize present.

Possession. It's like, what the hell is going on with me? My eye and now my eye talking about messy. feel messy right now. Okay. Messing with you anyway. I'm here and I'm doing it anyway. I love you dad. Anyway. Okay. So basically it talks about like talk, asking him one of the best things in his life that he was like the most proud of his life. And,

And he basically said that it was the day that you were born, that you and your brother were born. And I take that as like, wow, like my whole life I was working for him to be proud of me, but it was something that I didn't have to earn. And so like this little book was so healing and like it just showed how stories can transcend time basically.

Because like it did, I didn't have that reaction when I first read this, like however many years ago, like 11 years ago, but today or like a month or two ago, I was like bawling when I read it. I was like, it was such a big epiphany. Just like I didn't have to earn it versus like what I thought, you know, before. I was like, wow, that's a good way for me to, you know, move forward.

Kristin Birdwell (15:39.565)
Yeah, you existing was the proudest moment. Like you being here was all the enoughness that could ever been needed. Did he make this book for you leading to the end of his life? he art? Did he already make it? Like, I don't know all of that story. Feel free to hear whatever you want. I think it's beautiful because I gave him the book because I'm like, you're going to tell me one way or another.

I'm like, I'm going to find out these stories, some of your life, what's going on, because he was like way more reserved. And so I gave him this book and then like he took about six months and then he gave it to me for my birthday in like 2012. then, you know, less than a year later he died, but it was just so like pivotal to have that and like to have like this healing little book that I've read so many times. And to be honest, like, you know, I was ready to read it, but

I made it as a Christmas present one year for my brother, but he still hasn't read the whole entire thing yet. And it's just like more sensitive and you know, whenever he's ready to, to go through that and read it and, feel those feelings and emotions that can feel so messy that I have completely numb for so long in my life. Um, when he, you know, he will be ready when he's ready. And that's something that I've had to learn is that I can't force someone to be ready.

or to feel a certain way or that sort of thing. It's like all on their own like certain timeline. Yeah, there's the timing and what you're ready for. There's the timing and what others are ready for. And either way, the story is there, right? Like you said, one way or another, I'm going to get it out of you, dad, or you're going to tell me those things. And maybe he didn't have the words or the availability of having the dialogue and conversation.

wasn't how that story was supposed to come out. was supposed to be, like you said, it took them six months to write through it. And you've decided to go through it, maybe your brother not yet, but that's so beautiful. And I've been getting the targeted ads on Instagram for my mom's store. It's called Mom Tell Me Your Story and Dad Tell Me Your Story. And I think those are so cool.

Kristin Birdwell (18:00.001)
because we learn so much about ourselves now when we learn the stories of those before us, like all of our ancestors, whether it's our parents, grandparents, great grandparents, and we get to see maybe where our mess, or like I like to call it masterpiece, came from, or like were there anything?

that you learned from your dad's story that helped you like unpack or untighten some of the knots that were in your life? You know, maybe not necessarily from the book, definitely from learning about my grandfather though. He died very early. I never met him in person. He kind of had a violent death. My dad was only 14 whenever he died.

Um, but I chatted with my grandmother, my grandmother's still alive and I feel so lucky and blessed that she's 94 still with it, like still drives, like, you know, is, is open to sharing these different aspects. And, there's a big piece, you know, I, for a long time, like I have a little witchiness in me and for a long time, I didn't want to own it or take ownership because I didn't want people to think I was crazy. And really for me, that felt like I I'm intuitive. I can read situations good. Maybe that's a combination of trauma.

Maybe that's a combination of, you know, hyperindependence or whatever. But anyway, I learned that he had actually gone to like different psychological facilities for, what they, I don't know exactly what his diagnosis was, but I think that he could feel and had a deep sensitivity or felt strong emotions in certain ways. And back then, like they didn't really know how to handle it or what the best treatment option was. So I know he did like some

What is it? Shock treatment therapy. And, and so I'm like, luckily, luckily I don't have to do that today, but like, just kind of showed me that he was like also very emotional. and maybe he didn't handle it in all the appropriate ways or like healthy conscious conversations or stuff like that, or didn't know how to recognize or feel the emotions or get permission or that sort of thing. but I definitely resonate with him feeling super emotional.

Kristin Birdwell (20:16.329)
And I kind of definitely believe that one of my greatest superpowers is sensitivity, but it can also be one of the biggest challenging things to do is like feeling so deeply. something that I numbed for a long time. It's definitely part of the piece or element that I resonate with feeling messy sometimes. And that's what I've leaned into a little bit recently is that I can show up messy.

or when I feel emotional, can demonstrate and have like tears online. Like that's okay. And in fact, I feel like it gives permission for other people to be emotion. There was a call also that Austin, think mentioned on a Naba call, which I love the community and I'm so grateful that like we met through this community. Like it's so cool. Same. If all that came out of it was that I met the people that I have met, like if all of it disappeared tomorrow, not that it will, you know, it's going to the moon, but like,

That is the best part, the people I've met and us embracing that mess together. For sure. And like he mentioned, you know, that the achievements and all that stuff help inspire people, like whether it's, you know, creating this business or coaching or having a podcast or, you know, an inspiring something or another, a book, whatever it is. But it's like, the mess or the humanness that actually like creates the relatability.

And that is just so beautiful. Like meeting people on like, you know, connectivity levels and, and that we're all in this together versus like kind of like a pedestal or something similar like that. And so I just love that perspective too. Yeah. Yeah. The humaneness, which is the full spectrum of emotions and feels and highs and lows or whatever you want to call it. And I feel like

And I know we're kind of both in that season of unapologetically expressing the mess and metabolizing the mess within our own, you know, spiritual wellbeing and stuff. And there's an element of safety that I believe needs to be there. Yeah, I just got full body goosebumps when I said that.

Kristin Birdwell (22:32.769)
that needs to be there in order to express the mess because I moved to Utah a year and a half ago. Before that, I was back in California because COVID happened. Before that, I was in Austria, stuck in my apartment, couldn't leave, just like, and then before that was working in a position where there was no time for feels. I was in a different country every single week.

You know, I was the face of the company. You know, I remember having a conversation with my friend Sylvia. She was on TV a lot too. So was I that we couldn't cry because if we cried the next day, our eyes would be puffy and then you got to go on TV. Like we didn't know. And I need to talk with her about this again, because we talked about it, about how it's like, yeah, there's emotions there to express. But as soon as we unleashed the sprinklers.

You know, what do you do when it's action time? You know, and I was on camera every single day for seven years, like every single day. And so anyways, now recently being in Utah for over a year, feeling so safe, physically, emotionally, financially, spiritually, right?

And then I've been doing Dr. Erin Paulinger's manifesting magic course that she did. And I laughed because I told her, I'm like, Erin, that shit's like Jumanji. Like you cannot not finish it. So anyways, in this course, you're working with the womb space and the feminine and expressing all parts of that, right? We think feminine energy is like loving and nurturing and kind it is, but there's also rage and there's warrior spirit in that. And there is.

raw lioness energy, you know? And so over the last month or so, especially after finishing the push catch detox, I was talking with Austin and I was like, I don't, I'm not sure if I feel good. Like I just unleashed a lot, you know, but now I'm realizing like, that's because for the first time in a long time, you feel safe. have the time to land and you're

Kristin Birdwell (24:45.709)
I love that spirit about me of being go, go, go and being determined. I am relentless and tenacious. I'll identify with those words, but I've also been empowered to pump the brakes a little bit too. When we're in that place of safety, I feel like that's where the masterpiece loves to be. That's been wild. I love that. I love that.

you know, the safe that you have like pinpointed the safety element to have there been any like messier, you know, rageful practices that help you kind of unleash it since that safety is there. Yeah. Expressing it, you know, crying hysterically, screaming, crawling on the ground, in a very,

Like in my, mean, yeah, I mean, whatever, fly on the wall would know what's going on in here. No, you know, whatever. I'm not filming myself and posting that on social media. That's just a good place for you. Or like there's been times where, you know, after a long day of leading my team, I come in and I just collapsed to the ground and sob and mourn and moan. And it's like, there's a part of me, like you said, that I had numbed

for so long. And I also think too, it was unconscious, know, like it was like that door was shut and locked, but I didn't even know where that door was. Then, you know, then you start to know where that door is, and then you're kind of avoiding it or opening it just a little bit and peeking in real quick and then shutting the door. But now I just feel like, yeah, that needs to come up, that needs to be expressed.

I was, I can't remember who it was, a friend of mine, anyways, was sad. And I had mentioned to my mom, know, like, yeah, I'm going to go spend time with this friend because they're sad. And she was like, why are they sad? And I was like, because they're sad. Like, I don't know. I didn't ask why they were sad. Sadness sometimes has to come up and I'm going to go hold space for that person while they're sad. don't...

Kristin Birdwell (27:09.515)
You know, it didn't occur to me, just like asking people what they do doesn't really occur to me. Like it just to me is very surface, you know, but I realize and it's nobody's fault or it's on my mom's fault, whatever. But it's like, we never ask like, or have concern when someone's happy or joyful or all good and everything's fine. But why?

Why does it have to be something's wrong or seen as like a bad thing that you're sad or uncomfortable or something's going on? I didn't even think to ask the person, you're sad, cool, I'll be there. What do you need? You want to talk about it? You want to hug? Do just want to be sad? But now I'm really seeing the place that all the emotions have to take. I think that's so important. I love that you're doing it for yourself too. It's like you don't have to like…

I mean, there's some people I know that do record like the rage rituals or something. And to me, it's like, you know, if it's being curious where that's coming from, you know, or for them, like, but I also love that you're keeping it sacred and honoring that for yourself. I did something recently. I'm part of like this pleasure priestess group and she had a guest teacher come in we did a rage ritual. And so one of the things is like a song of rage where we're like, you know, screaming either into a pillow or like, you know, pumping a pillow or

bashing a pillow into the bed or whatever it is or punching or all these things, the air, all those things. And then it was a song of grief. And then, and like a reeling allow us to feel that as well. And then was like, and then we tapped into like a sensuality. So there was like a song of like sensual, so like moving from that. I'm like, wow, it was very empowering. But I just think that there's so much also conditioning around or.

or especially about being a woman, right? Being a good girl or things like that. And like for me, I know for part of my journey recently, I had defaulted like to being or being some of that more good girl because I knew that was accepted love and all those things. And so it actually produced a lot of anxiety, so much so anxiety.

Kristin Birdwell (29:17.741)
Thought patterns that didn't feel like me so much where I was like, you know pulling into my garage and like having like super like Suicidal ideation type of thoughts and like what is this? This is not like I got to get some help and so, you know, I it therapy I thought I saw it ketamine assisted therapy which helps like, you know Neural pathways and all that jazz Totally like life-changing experience and then so one session or after one session or doing an integration session with my therapist She's like do you think?

that part of your anxiety could have been from repressing your wild woman. And it just like clicked. was like, oh snap. Like I totally was repressing this part of me and like how, and then that's also a part of, I was like, you know, in a way I got to switch the viewpoint of like, this anxiety is bad to like, it's my body showing me how I can show up or to showing, it's like, if only like, listen to me, please.

I am wanting to be expressed in some way, form or fashion. Like you are not being your most authentic self type of thing. And so how are we going to get you to like, to be that again? cause I, you know, fallen back into a typical pattern, like whether it was like with offerings that I was offering the world, you know, different relationships, that sort of thing. and so I would say like, there's so much condition around being that good girl and I'm not a good girl.

I can be, I can still be kind and still be wild or have those things kind like, I can be messy and kind and wild or unapologetic, those sorts of things. But yeah, I would say, like, I know my mom has a lot of this same like conditioning of, you know, not wanting to upset people or have certain hard conversations or that, she'll lose love or something or has to show up in a certain manner.

And that shifted because we've had conversations or opportunities to have conversations. So, you know, in some ways, like my own journey has also repaired our relationship or inspired her to have those difficult conversations. Yeah, to see what that looks like or what that could be. get to be a, yeah, an example. And yeah, oftentimes those emotions are there to teach us something and to tell us something.

Kristin Birdwell (31:37.357)
But we've been taught, like you said, you got to be a good girl, which means have it all together and have a smile and, you know, calm down a little bit or calm down the emotions. you're too much. You're not enough. You got to be act this way. You got to be this. There's so much. I know. And I really feel like I'm in a season of, yeah, surrender and trust.

whatever's coming up, whatever that next step might be. I started meditating with Dr. Joe in 2018. And I did it because I knew that meditation was good for you. I didn't do it because I thought it would get rid of these anxious feelings. I didn't really make that connection. anyways, I used to have these really big anxiety attacks where my brain and body would just like.

lose it and I'd be in bed all day and it would happen, you know, maybe a couple times a month, whatever. And then it started to go down. Like they started to go away. And I remember being like, yes, like I, I conquered this, right? Well, lo and behold, come to safety and security in Utah. A couple months ago, I had another one and I remember thinking like,

What am I doing wrong that this is coming back? But I was talking to a friend of mine who talked, like was on the phone with me while I was having this anxiety attack and was just like, breathe through it like big in it. Like we were just like together in that probably one of the most beautiful sacred experiences with that person. And then he goes, what is it trying to tell you? Talk to it. What is it trying to tell you?

And it was like that you don't need to do so much that you don't need to do everything. That's not about who you are. You're London. Like you can just be and be okay. And I'm laying in my bed, you know, talking to the anxiety, having the dialogue. And after that, and even right in this moment talking to you, I was like, wait, the goal was to not get rid of the anxiety. The goal is to understand it and to talk to it.

Kristin Birdwell (33:52.927)
and to come nose to nose with it and to have that be okay. And to get the wisdom that you need from that. Cause you need, you get wisdom from, you know, joyful, amazing moments. You also get wisdom when things are dark and scary and uncomfortable. And, you know, and that's where I'm at now is like, messy is good. Like as long as you're not picking up your shit and throwing it at someone else.

Right? Like, you know, as long as you're not smearing your mess over someone else. I think that's where the the place that I'm at and what I'm excited about is like, we all have a mess, but we try to blame someone. Like, well, I'm mad. Who made me mad? I'm sad. made me sad? You know, but it's actually like, no, mad and sad are part of it. We have this beautiful wheel of emotions. And instead of

blaming something outside of us for causing it. We're not taught this though, right? Because I wish there was a class on talking to your emotions and under you know, gosh, that would been my favorite class. But being able to be like, okay, it's not about who did what to me in order for me to feel this type of way. It's like this chemical concoction of this feeling and emotion is here. What is it trying to teach me? And I think one time I heard

It was like a pastor talking about like, if you don't, how did he say it? if you don't, I forget how he phrased it, but it's like, basically like don't bleed on someone who never cut you. It's okay to be messy and have a wound and be bloody, but it's not somebody else's job to fix it or sew you up. And don't bring that mess to the next thing and bleed all over them. You know? And I love that.

You know, what that reminds me of as you're speaking is like, the moment if we're, and I've totally like, you made me so mad before. And you know, and maybe that's like me to look at the trigger, you know, as my teacher and that sort of thing. But yeah, I feel like the moment that we do that, it's kind of like pointing the blame or it's like stepping into a victimhood mentality versus like that taking personal responsibility of how we're feeling.

Kristin Birdwell (36:11.341)
because I feel like we can still be messy. can honor our emotions and we can also honor other people's boundaries. We can be respectful. We can be kind and that sort of thing. And also it's like, hey, if you need a little space for me, sometimes I'm like, I just need a little distance, a little time to really like get to how I feel. don't want to say anything impulsively that hurts someone feelings or that isn't like my deepest truth of the moment. Like maybe I need to go journal something or just like sit with myself and my emotions for a second. And I can now.

voice that versus just like, peace, I'm gone. And so I think that that's just kind of like the victimhood and personal responsibility. Cause I think there's so much power in taking ownership and personal and having that personal responsibility, but there is a lot of responsibility. There's a lot of freedom because I believe that's how we start to co-create our lives and the lives that we want.

but it is also a lot of responsibility to say that like, okay, I am the common denominator in all of my relationships and all of my, successes and all of my failures. Like when I showed up, when I didn't show up, it was the common denominator was me. And so like, learned that whenever I noticed a pattern in certain characteristics that I was dating different people. and I was like, wait a second. It's like this in a different form or this in a form, but the common denominator.

is me. So I got to get real with myself and ask myself questions and that sort of thing too. Yeah. What are you attracting? And I love the word responsibility. I love words in general because I love communication and that's what I coach on. But responsibility is response ability, your ability to respond. so yeah, it's your responsibility, but you also have that response.

ability. And instead of reacting, or like you said, you made me mad or all the things. And even though I coach on this stuff, I make mistakes all the time, right? Like I asked for do overs, I apologize, I, know, and that's kind of where the that's kind of where the conversation with you and I started where we were like, yeah, and even Jen Reno, who is one of our mutual friends in our Nava community, we're talking after this for the podcast, but she called me after I

Kristin Birdwell (38:26.167)
did that last podcast of like, you can be messy and right? Like I can be a messy fucked up communicator mess up and still coach on communication and still show up. Right. And so knowing that like, you don't have to have it all together in order to bring your story, bring your gift. And Brené Brown said this one time, I think in an interview I watched is like, instead of you made me mad or you did this, she says the story I'm telling myself is. Yes. And

Most recently too, in relationships and other things, it's come up where it's like the story I'm telling myself is that I'm not good enough for you and that I'm not, you know, and getting to the roots of that story is huge. And I know that's your jam. I know you're a story doula, which I would love to hear. I mean, I get the idea of it. I kind of have an idea, but this is not something that you like,

you know, go to college to get your story doula degree, you know? So like, to me, the stories are everything. It's never really about what's happening. It's about the story that you're telling about what's happening. It's about what you make it mean. And so yeah, I want to know more about what it means to be a story doula and the stories we tell ourselves. Yeah. And so there's kind of like a twofold really, like the,

The stories we tell ourselves, well, okay, we are meaning making machines. And so the stories we tell ourselves, we can turn everything into a meaning that works for us instead of against us. And so I see it's like you can live the story that you want to, like you're the author of your life canvas by being very selective with the words and the language that you use. I totally believe words are spells.

And that's why I don't listen to certain music. That's why I don't say certain terms. I'm like, I'm not going to be programmed with that belief. You know, I'm very careful. So that's one aspect of it. And then the other aspect is that I, there's so much freedom and story ownership. And I really got to see after writing my own book, how everything worked for me and how certain traumas or impacts influence certain decisions in life.

Kristin Birdwell (40:53.517)
Um, whether it was, you know, sexual abuse, whether it was verbal abuse, whether it was grief or pain, loss, chaos, like all these different things. Like writing my story helped me writing my old helped me live my new. It was like gave me different perspective, bird's eye lens. Yeah. Like loved it. And then it's like interesting. And doula to me is like, you know, someone who helps bird their story, bird something into the world, whether it's a baby or.

or something like that to me, it's a creative project can also have some of those same characteristics, know, maybe less breastfeeding, less crying, maybe not less crying all the time, but I'd always loved stories and imagination. And then, so when I had the epiphany that I wanted to help people burrow their stories into a way, whether that's a book or coming on my podcast or.

something like that, I burst into tears and started crying and had full body chills. I like, I guess I had to follow that feeling. And now it's also evolved into, you know, helping people live like their authentic expression or the story they want to live. And so like store, and then once I had that epiphany in Costa Rica, I was like, Oh snap. was like, duh, I've always loved stories my entire life. Of course it would be stories. It was like, kind of like one of these.

like moments and I'd gone to school for like journalism and studied acting and writing at UCLA, UCLA extension in LA and, and all kinds of stuff. So it's, was like, duh. took like book coaching stuff too, but yeah. And so I just really feel like the more people are aware that they have that power that they can create their, a new story. then, then they'll feel more empowered and live and live a happier life. And that has like tons of ripple effects too.

they can be living examples or walking possibilities of what's possible, you know, for their family, for their loved ones, for their ancestors. You touched on ancestors earlier. And so I think like both, you know, older ancestors and those to come, can be inspired or like set a new pathway for their family. love what you said about how, when I chose to rewrite the old

Kristin Birdwell (43:12.237)
I was allowed to rewrite the new or however you said that I'm going to have to go back and re-listen. But I love that and I love the idea of birthing a story, especially for women. We can get stuck in the loop thinking that the only thing we can birth is a human. And I've worked with clients who have had a lot of guilt and shame and

you know, frustration around being at an age where they're, you know, can no longer have kids and whether they wanted them or not, there's some part of them that feels like they let themselves or even their parents down for not giving them grandkids, et cetera. I don't have kids and you can birth a whole lot through that creative, sacral energy, including the story about

you know, not having kids and being able to step into your power. And so I love that idea because we all have a story within us to be birthed. We all have a purpose within us to be birthed and gifted to the world. It doesn't have to be a human. And I know I have a lot of moms that listen because a lot of the episodes with moms do super well, but I also know there's a lot of not moms that are listening to. And so

Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about like, yeah, birthing your story and making that the creation that you bring to the world. Well, and in some ways I experienced total postpartum depression after it came out. and also I tell people it was kind of like empty. was the day when my book was published. It was the day my my child left the nest and it was also the day they were born.

And so it was like very interesting. And there was a big moment of like, okay, I've done this now what? So there was like some interesting like grief too, that I'll never get to have this experience for the first time again. And so it was really interesting that there were some like, what I post part of book birthing or story birthing that came, that came to, and I am totally an advocate of someone following their own inner directives, you know, cause the world always is telling us what to believe, what to do. And while some of it is valuable that

Kristin Birdwell (45:36.141)
you know, how we can make positive changes and impacts in our lives and the lives of others. But sometimes a lot of it is conditioning or how we, how others think we should behave. the having children thing. I think that's a big one. Like I'm 36. About to be 30. Yeah. And so I'm like, I'll be 37 next year. And so the lot of the times, especially I grew up in a small town, I've even felt that pressure before like, when are you gonna have kids? Like my dad would love to see some great kids before I go. And so I think that's big.

I also am like totally an advocate for giving mothers and stay at home moms like the honor that they deserve because that's got to be one of the hardest jobs in the world is raising a quality human. So I'm like, yes, good on you. But we can also be so maternal in other ways towards ourselves, towards nieces, nephews, towards projects, the stories that we want to birth in the world. I mean, I totally find like, you know, worth and honor in that.

I'm going to switch my leg up here. Okay. Did your leg fall asleep? Yeah. I was like, need to move it. Last weekend when we were supposed to originally record our podcast, I drove out to go make candles.

I can say it because by the time this episode comes out, it'll be after Christmas. went to make a candle for my mom for Christmas. Homemade candle with this girl, Nicole, who's amazing. And I made one for myself. I made one for my mom. Such a beautiful experience. she was, we were just talking and she was like, what's your podcast going to be on? And I was like, I'm talking with this girl, Kristin. This was before we decided to reschedule, but I was like, I'm talking with this girl, Kristin. She's a story doula.

And she helps people birth their stories in book form or expression or however. I this was my first time asking you specifically about it, but I know a thing or two. So I was like, story, do I kind of get the idea? And she was like, my gosh, I'm so excited to listen to that episode. Will you send it to me when it goes live? Because I've been writing this story and I feel stuck.

Kristin Birdwell (47:48.265)
So I want to talk to the person that's listening that's like her, who's writing the story and feels stuck. Is there something, something to learn from the stuck is should we expect that there's going to be the stuckness in the story birthing process? What would you just say to someone who's like, have that story to get out or I've been doing it, but now I'm at a spot where I'm just like, man, I'm not sure what the next, next best step is.

Well, there's a few things because I think that, well, one, I have, I probably have a lot of questions for her and like, like, where are you at in your process? Have you ever outlined, um, have you set a clear beginning and a clear end? Um, especially if it's a personal story, like a memoir or a reflective story, something like that. Sometimes it's memoir is not every single detail of your life. It's usually a set period of time or an arc of transformation. So if it's like this, um,

a trial or something that you went through, what scenes would paint the before, like the heart of the mess or the chaos or before you learned a lesson or before something, you know, what's the, the climax of you learning it, what scenes paint that, and then to the end, what paints the resolution and who you are today. Kind of like something like that is like an easy way to describe it from something to something else. I would also get curious, like if it's resistance per se.

like, is there, you know, a fear that you're not acknowledging or that you feel stuck or is there a certain way that you can, become inspired again, sometimes maybe even just like writing three different ways to open a book or to finish a book or something like that. I would say just be very curious about the resistance. Cause a lot of times the resistance wants us to pause or to not. And I am a huge fan of Steven Pressfield and he wrote a book.

called the War of Art. And he basically says that the more resistance that we feel to our project, the greater it is to the evolution of our soul. So when you feel that resistance, I'm like, when you feel that resistance and you feel it's it means that you're onto something good. And then you just got to keep applying the ass to the chair and like writing even if it's like a sentence or a paragraph or something like that. I also highly recommend like getting a shitty first draft out of the way and like feeling that and celebrating that.

Kristin Birdwell (50:14.889)
and then, and then going back with, you know, maybe taking as much time as you need, taking a breather, going back with fresh eyes before you start the editing process or recruit someone. And then, you know, we also have a lot of AI tools and I am like, I have some hesitations because I'm such a creative and like, feel like stories are so personal that, they can definitely be used as a tool if you're stuck. like give me.

three different options of how to open this scene. Okay, cool. at the same time that I do feel like there's nothing that will replace like Austin mentioned on my podcast, our unique vibratory signature and medicine that we've gained from all of our life experiences and the things that we've learned along the way. so that can't be replaced. So you've got to actually like, you know, pour that in through the page. I also find.

Like finding my flow physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally helps me before I sit down and write. So whether that's like moving my body, whether it's dance or going for a walk or a workout, whether that's repeating certain affirmations into my mind or even affirmations where I ask myself a question like, why do I feel so inspired? Why do I always meet the right people at the right time?

Or, know, like, you know, words flow through me on to the page or like I'm a vessel for creative awakenings or I'm a vessel for whatever shift you want your book to have on the world. Um, and so it was like, really, I love like just, you know, even two firsts, like, sometimes, uh, you know, a meditation will benefit my mental health, my emotional health, a walk does like my mental, my physical, my emotional. Um, so I do that sometimes too, and recommend that to people that I work with.

I like that. am I full of ideas? Why do my ideas effortlessly just go onto the page with ease? Why am I such a gifted writer? I feel like when we use that certain tone of voice and then our brains start looking for the answers to the questions that we're asking. There's so many times where I've asked myself, why am I so abundant? It's those random things like

Kristin Birdwell (52:33.933)
person buying my coffee in the line ahead of me or, you know, why am I so, especially the, why do I always meet the right people at the right time? I have met some people in some interesting ways. And so I'm like, interesting, cool. That'll be fun to see where that goes. Yeah, that's, I love that question. Why do I meet the right people at the right time? I don't, I've never asked myself that question and

I've seen that with my eyes wide open in my own life so many times where it's like, I'm excited for that person that can help me with this to show up. I think that's more the language I've used before rather than the question, but, that's kind of that season in surrender too, where I know that there's other people that I know I need to collaborate with and what I want to create and what I want to do next.

that I'm excited for them to show up. I'm excited to witness that. think that's the other side of the coin, if you will, of thinking you have to do, do, do, and do all the things and go look for the person and go. And it's like, actually, like there's been so many times where I've met someone like in a plant medicine ceremony and a TP with five people or walking down the road or just decided to get off at that gas station.

real quick, even though in my head I was going to go to the next one and meet this person or get off and go to this diner, even though there's a long wait, cool, there's a spot at the bar for one person. I'm going to sit right there who's next to me, right? Like so many cool moments like that. I've had a wreck. A wreck brought me together with someone cool. A what? A wreck.

I was in an Uber going to the airport one time and they side swiped another like black SUV and it ended up being someone really dope. And we ended up sharing a, I mean like a well-known famous comedian. We ended up being on the same flight, sharing a mimosa and like talking about writing and just like having this really cool moment and then getting on the flight and coming to Austin. So it was really cool.

Kristin Birdwell (54:48.365)
But yeah, like the sitting at the bar one. And yeah, it's not necessarily something that we have to control. It's just being open to those experiences and allowing them to flow or like the surrendering aspect that you're mentioning. And when that happens, it just makes me more excited for the next person I might meet. And not so much of like, what can this person do for me? Just like, can the fact that our or what can we create because our paths cross?

Or like, oh, you know, now I'm thinking in my head, I need to go tell Nicole to connect with you because you guys would be the perfect connection if she's feeling stuck in her book. Cool. I met her through Becca, who I've done combo with. met Becca because of my neighbor. I met my neighbor because my best friend came and met my neighbor at the park, right? Like all these things where when you look back at the history of you, it's like, it's so much more divine than we're conditioned to believe.

It's so true and allowing space for that divinity to happen. I know I've some control issues in the past. sometimes going back to mess and my dog coming into my life. I'm like, he has a big spiritual initiation and releasing control or cleanliness or like that kind like OCD-ish nature. So it's been an interesting ride.

Yeah, when I came went to Egypt, I came back and I was following what I say is the butterflies like, okay, I'm just going to see kind of what life presents and what opportunities happen. And then a friend of mine invited me to go to like a yoga sound healing place. And then that turns out that's where I met Veronica. And I was like, this is nourishing. went back a couple of weeks and then we grabbed coffee and then we talked about Naba and all these things. And so, which led to

then person, which led to meeting you and I always loved your energy. it's so it's like interesting, like how things unfold when we don't try to like make it look a certain way. one more thing I want to talk about and then we can yeah, wrap up and land the plan. I could talk to you forever. But something I do a lot with my clients is written exposure therapy. I don't know if you've heard of that before. It's called.

Kristin Birdwell (57:09.537)
wet, W-E-T, there's research on it, you could check it out. what you do is you pick a specific moment in time of a story you want to rewrite, and it's five sessions, and you write the first time, what happened, the next time, what happened. You just don't stop writing. You write the what happened, what happened, what happened. And then the last two sessions, you write the because, right? Like, because this happened.

here's what I'm gonna make it mean moving forward, right? And when I first started researching it and then doing it myself and working on that, I was like, it's like the story is a junk drawer. And when you start writing it over and over and over and over and over again, you're taking it out, you're taking that old cord and you're putting it with the cords, you're taking the scissors that has the corroded lipstick connected to it and separate, know, like just.

organizing, right? can't, we can't erase what happened to us. And that's not the point, right? We can't make that bad thing go away. You you talked about losing your dad and we didn't dive a ton into that, but like sexual abuse. And I had Elisa Marie on my podcast last week who has gone through so much stuff. And I think about my history with my family and me choosing the route that I wanted to go. And I remember for so long, I wanted an apology. wanted someone to admit they were wrong. I wanted someone to

take ownership for what I had experienced in my life. And then when I started working through understanding written exposure therapy and all of that, it was like, no, the point is not to delete that. It's to not bleed on all over everybody else. And it's to be like, look at that scar. That's from when I did X, Y, or Z. And here's what I learned from it. And so I feel like written exposure therapy is so good to.

organize the mess, organize the file cabinets of all the stories. So then, you know, it's like I can pull the story and be like when my grandpa wanted to disown me for my decisions, let me tell you more about this versus me going into relationships thinking I'm not good enough and I have to prove myself and then acting that out, right?

Kristin Birdwell (59:16.961)
being able to write that. And I've worked with a lot of clients on that from little things all the way to big things. I always tell them, whatever you're willing to touch, I'm willing to go there with you. So you can choose, Like if it's, you know, I mean, yeah, whatever that is, Yeah, safety. feel like the more safe- Totally, safety, the rapport, you know what you've worked through. But I want to talk about like the power of the because. So it's like, that's what we're here to, I believe,

you know, to share with the world is like, we're going to have the messy, right? Like me and Kristen today, if you, if it hasn't hit the nail on the head, it's a hot ass mess sometimes, but like, here, you show up anyway, right? There's moments, like you said, horizontal days. My best friend, Allie calls him that too. She'll be like, London, you need a horizontal day.

where it's just like, you know, and that's okay. And, and being messy is okay. And having the hard moments that things happen and you lose people that you love. And I know that you in your bio, I read when I was kind of going through some of the things you've lost people to suicide. So have I recently, and it's just a lot. And that happened. And because that happened, here's now what I get to.

to make it mean. catalyst. Well, I feel like I didn't know it was called that, but written exposure therapy sounds a lot like memoir writing. Got it. Because you go back several times and edit it and it's like you see these life events or pivotal life markers and it shifts from something that either happened to you or da da da da to the because, okay, oh, because that happened, I made this choice. And then this one led me to this choice.

And then this one led me to this choice where I finally chose myself and feel freedom and liberated and all that. So it's just like an interesting, like connection of the dots. and I would even say like that because of, like, if I'm going to plot or outline or make a timeline of a memoir or a story, a lot of times I'm going to make that timeline. and it's because it's like one moment and I give the prompt, it's like,

Kristin Birdwell (01:01:30.455)
this led to that or because of this, this happened, because of this, this happened. And internally and externally. So it's like externally, like the what happened, the event, the who, what, when, where, why. And then internally, like the interior life, the emotional shift, and it can be big or small events that could read a book and this shifted this or because of this happened or it could be something more traumatic and revisit that too and like work on the because. And like through that writing and editing process, it seems like you're getting a lot of that exposure therapy.

and repetition to like go into the subconscious mind and reprogram yourself. So that's interesting that now I'm like, now I'm like, want to look into written exposure therapy. That's cool. Yeah. You'll love it. You'll love it. It's very, um, yeah, I think it's very different than talking about it. When you're writing it down and you keep rewriting it, I noticed with myself and others, it's like you have

all these details and all the things and then slowly but surely it's like what's important to store and make meaning of. You know, it's like now I had like two pages of things all over the place. Now I have like a paragraph, five or six sentences that just, I'm not beaten around the bush. This is exactly what happened. This is how I felt. This is, you know, right where it is. Hit the bullseye. Okay, that's there. That's clear.

Now I don't need to run around holding that flag, but I can now write what I'm going to make it mean moving forward. And that's what I want to bring to the world. And so that's what I feel like I'm birthing regularly are my because's. Yeah. That process sounds like a fantastic and beautiful way to help extract the wisdom from the wounds that happen. then I usually keep the because's and I burn the stories.

You don't have to burn it, but I'm very ritualistic when it comes to those things. I'm like, okay, what happened doesn't really matter. What am I going to make it mean moving forward? So I have this journal that has a lot of because pages and then a lot of pages ripped out because I'm like, okay, yeah, I remember what happened. That's cool. I burn that in my toilet or outside or something. then I don't know. That's what I like to do. Well, yeah, because to me that's truth of the present moment. I will say though that revisiting some of mine.

Kristin Birdwell (01:03:50.293)
It was also a permission slip to feel like some of the things that I probably suppressed in like the certain time, like with the grief with my dad or I didn't feel it to the capacity. I felt that I could then, but rewriting it gave me permission to feel right the because and release that old story and pattern. And like, think it, you know, just like it also, I want to add one little thing about discernment for me and the messiness. It's like, okay, am I avoiding showing up because I feel messy?

or discerning is like, am I resisting showing up because I need rest? that's, just like, feel like discernment and curiosity is a big key, like for me on like this whole messiness, on showing up, on storytelling, like on helping people, like those two things are like what I keep going back to. I'm like, do I need to hibernate? is, am I resisting being seen? Like, what, you know, just getting curious. Yeah.

What does the mess need? I'm not sure. Every day, might be different. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And that's honoring the truth of the present moment. So good. I appreciate you. I appreciate you, honey. Thanks for talking to me. I love where all we went. From our periods to our mess, to our story, to our because. Yes. And so, yeah, we both need a heating pad horizontal moment.

For sure. Exactly what I'm going to do. I'm just going to go right there for a little bit, my water and then reheat my heating pad. Well, thank you guys for listening. Thank you for you, Kristin. Thank you. Thank you for you.