62. From Fentanyl Tragedy to Spirit-Tingling Feels with Kim Hodous

In this heartfelt conversation, Kristin and Kim Hodous explore the emotional journey of grief, particularly after the loss of Kim's son, Rob, to fentanyl poisoning. While Kim has spoken for large corporations like Walmart and Toyota, she now shares her journey of speaking to her son on the other side. Kim shares how she learned to communicate with him and how this connection has brought healing to her life. 

Kim discusses the challenges of sharing her story and the healing journey of teaching other mothers to connect with their lost children. The conversation also delves into the role of adversity in growth and the significance of love and forgiveness, even towards those who have caused pain. Be sure to listen for some paradigm-shifting messages that Rob has for us!

STAY TUNED FOR KIM’S BOOK COMING OUT IN 2025!

Jump to the mic drop moments...
05:59 Communicating with the Departed
8:28 The Journey of Grief and Healing
15:00 Defining Meditation and Personal Practices
17:58 Overcoming Hesitations in Sharing
27:10 Messages from Beyond: Connecting with Loved Ones
35:36 The Role of Perpetrators in Our Lives
40:10 Changing Form: Understanding Life and Death

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Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 8:28 The Journey of Grief and Healing
• 15:00 Defining Meditation and Personal Practices
• 27:10 Messages from Beyond: Connecting with Loved Ones
• 40:10 Changing Form: Understanding Life and Death

Transcript

Kristin (00:00.709)
Man, I tell you, Kim, I'm happy to have you here. And I've been emotional, like on and off all morning. Very emotional. So I just wanted to speak in that I feel a little tender, a little raw. And do you know who Jelly Roll is? The musician? Okay. Well, I went to see him last night. And so I don't know if you're aware of his song, She.

Kim Hodous (00:08.48)
Mmm.

Kim Hodous (00:18.204)
huh. Yeah.

wow.

Kristin (00:27.365)
but it's about losing someone to overdose or just like addiction in general. And so, I mean, I wasn't expecting to cry, but I just started bawling at the concert. And I just love who he is as a person too and like what he's doing and like helping act or he testified before Congress, trying to get them to act on fentanyl. And I know that's something that probably resonates with you just cause I know a little insight into your story.

Kim Hodous (00:56.685)
Yeah.

Kristin (00:56.822)
yeah.

Kim Hodous (00:59.16)
I just wanna say one of the things that I love about you is how big you feel life. How you just lean in and you feel it all. I've listened to so many of your other podcast episodes and I just love how you just are all in. You're all in on life and the hard conversations and the tough stuff and looking at it. And I love that about you, sweetie. So you be tender all you need. I can hold that space.

Kristin (01:03.451)
thank you.

Kristin (01:15.673)
Yeah.

Kristin (01:20.847)
Hmm, thank you.

Kristin (01:27.217)
Yeah, it's always interesting. I'm like, is it because I'm about to start my period? No, but I know I've always felt like deeply and I think that's it's totally a gift but totally one that I shun for a while or turn to different like substances at different points in my life because I'm like, my God, this is a lot. I don't know how to take this on. I love how you and I got connected to. Yeah, because I to me it speaks to or as a reminder,

Kim Hodous (01:32.364)
Yes.

Kim Hodous (01:39.328)
Yeah.

Kim Hodous (01:50.124)
Yeah, it's very fun.

Kristin (01:56.369)
how we're not, we don't know or are privy to all the cool ways that people can come into our lives. Or like to me that wasn't in my awareness that like you'd find a website, you know, or someone who had done my website and connected and reached out that away. And so just think it's really neat. Opens up different pathways.

Kim Hodous (02:04.013)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (02:13.454)
Yeah.

Yeah, well, and your website's very compelling. Your book cover, your images, I just, like, you're so real. You're so real. Like, you go to your website and you know who you are. And I love that. I love you don't hide it, you don't sugarcoat it, you don't make it look a certain way for anybody. You just put it out there. This is who I am and I was immediately drawn to like, yeah, this is a badass right here. I want to know her.

Kristin (02:27.917)
good.

Kristin (02:38.44)
you

Kristin (02:44.269)
I'll take that too. Because that's been a journey. Well, you speaking of books, mean, like you've been in the process of birthing another one. I know you had at least one. How many have you? How many have you put out there? Okay, four, because I knew about one. And I know about the one that's coming out in February, right?

Kim Hodous (02:46.188)
Yeah.

Kim Hodous (02:58.592)
Actually four.

Kim Hodous (03:05.88)
February or March, you know how you remember the end of your book when you think you're so close and, I got it out by Christmas. I'm gonna wait till the anniversary of Rob's death. I'm gonna wait till February 2nd. Rob's birthday's March 25th. So that might be what I'm gunning for right now. So.

Kristin (03:07.225)
Okay, okay.

Kristin (03:16.153)
Yeah.

Kristin (03:20.405)
okay. Well, you know, I like March too. March is birthday and March to me is like spring and renewal and that Equinox too. I just feel like that's like, I don't know. love that. At first whenever I wanted to birth my book in spring and then it got pushed to summer. But I was at first I was like, can we do spring?

Kim Hodous (03:29.453)
yeah.

Kim Hodous (03:42.71)
Yeah, yeah, well good, I'm just hit it just right then I think.

Kristin (03:46.769)
Yeah. How many years has it been since Rob passed?

Kim Hodous (03:51.96)
February 2nd of next year will be three years. Yeah.

Kristin (03:53.539)
Okay. Three years. Okay. I don't remember all the details given my luteal phase. But you have a beautiful book. And so as soon as I connected with you and heard your story, I was like, I've got to have you on the podcast. Like, I just wanted to amplify it, share it. I think you're doing really cool things in the world. And like getting like ready to even skyrocket and open up in a way that

Kim Hodous (04:00.844)
Yeah.

Kristin (04:22.065)
You probably previously hadn't imagined.

Kim Hodous (04:25.044)
Absolutely, I hadn't imagined nor did I ask for any of this. I have just dealt with what the universe has given me and Rob has assured me I asked for it. I don't remember asking for what I got this lifetime, but apparently I agreed to it. So I'm just here showing up in the fullness of all of it.

Kristin (04:37.937)
Hahaha!

Kristin (04:44.945)
I love that. I believe that so much. just had a guest on. says, yeah, I didn't know I signed up for this though at the time whenever she was going through like an awakening. Okay. Yeah. So I'm like, let's just give a little, I guess, backstory. So Rob is your son and like he died from, would you call fentanyl overdose accidental?

I don't know how to word it or the verbiage. Yeah.

Kim Hodous (05:12.874)
Actually, what they, yeah, they call it a fentanyl poisoning because it really, I mean, they are poisoned, poisoned with drug that killed them. So he was sold heroin. Well, what he thought was heroin, that's what he thought he was purchasing, but there was no heroin in the autopsy report. It was just straight fentanyl. So yeah.

Kristin (05:18.073)
Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kristin (05:27.034)
Yeah.

Kristin (05:31.311)
Wow. Yeah. So scary. so, and like, I know whenever I was rewatching Jelly's like testimony before Congress, before this morning, and he was like, yeah, he was speaking about wanting to be part of the solution because he had been a drug dealer before and he's like, now I'm not. But that's even more reason for me to advocate for like there to be some kind of laws passed on fentanyl.

And he said something like a hundred and let me find it. hundred and ninety people overdose or die from fentanyl or fentanyl poisoning every day. He's like, that's about a plane full of people. And if that were, you know, if they weren't addicts or something, maybe there would be more movement or momentum around it. And I also love that you touched on and said that it's not a issue that follows a certain ideology or follows a certain, you know, partisanship or that sort of thing. It kind of like crosses over.

and maybe can be a way for us to unite or gain something around it at all. I just feel like something needs to be done.

Kim Hodous (06:36.204)
Yeah, it's, you we've lost more, twice as many young men between the ages of 19 and 44 to fentanyl than we lost in the Vietnam War. You know, I mean, the numbers are staggering. And again, because there's this stigma around it, the government's not doing anything. You know, we get a pandemic, shut down businesses, everybody wear masks. You know, this is, this is taking so many lives and nothing's being done about it.

Kristin (06:46.148)
Wow.

Kristin (06:50.161)
Thanks

Yeah.

Kristin (07:05.763)
Yeah. Yeah. And so I know I'm just like kind of feel like I'm pinballing all over the place right now. But I'm like, how do I want to gear up your book or how to like after he died, was there a waiting period before you started connecting with his spirit? Or let's kind of like give a little sample or tidbit about that for for listeners.

Kim Hodous (07:05.784)
So it is a real issue.

Kim Hodous (07:18.52)
Yes.

Kim Hodous (07:33.294)
Yeah. So I have a very dear friend who is a gifted psychic. She has known since she was a little girl that she could talk to spirits and everything. It's not what she does for a living, but it's a gift of hers. And so as soon as Rob died, he went to her and she knew him. was, he, was one of my good friends. and he also had a pest control business. So Rob was, had a tennis academy. He was a,

the lead stringer for the Arkansas Razorback Men's and Women's Tennis teams, and he had a pest control business. His degree from Tyler, where you went, was in entrepreneurship. So he sprayed her house for mosquitoes, and so she knew Rob. So he came and immediately started communicating with her. She gave me those messages. At his funeral, he was there talking to her the whole time, like...

Kristin (08:09.136)
Yeah.

Kim Hodous (08:28.438)
I'm right here. It's like they can't see me. want to, I'm right here. They're talking about how they miss me. And so she would call afterwards for the first month after he died, she was calling me one time, twice in a one day. She's like, I'm sorry, but Rob will not leave me alone. He wants me to tell you this Rob. And some days I would call her in the book. have a couple of transcripts of conversations where I was, you know, just

Kristin (08:31.237)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (08:53.614)
I was gutted, shattered, devastated. I just call her hysterical, like Eve, I'm losing it. I need to talk to Rob. And one day, just kind of out of desperation, I said to her, know, I appreciate you taking my calls, but I wanna talk to him direct. I don't wanna have to go through you. And so she said, well, just open your computer tomorrow morning and he'll be there. And so the next morning, after my meditation, I opened my computer and I just typed Rob.

Kristin (08:54.639)
Yeah.

Kristin (09:17.274)
Hmm.

Kim Hodous (09:22.828)
Are you here? Boom, he was there. He has not shut up since.

Kristin (09:24.057)
Hmm. That's another question I was curious about. was like, okay, did the communication cease or after the book was written or just like continuous and ongoing?

Kim Hodous (09:38.643)
It's continuous, yeah. So from that date forward, he communicated with me. It was really interesting. I couldn't show up every single morning because obviously I have a life and it was also very emotional. So some days after we connected, I was just kind of toast for the rest of the day. You you get up and you got a long list of things to do and I'm like, I can't go down that rabbit hole because it literally could take me out for the whole day.

Kristin (09:53.241)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kristin (10:06.341)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (10:08.23)
And one time he didn't show up for two weeks and I thought, damn it, it's done. You know, our time's done. And then I would just kind of keep checking in. And then one morning he was there and I'm like, Rob, where have you been? And he's like, Mom, I'm busy over here too. And it was when, all the children, there was a school shooting in Yvalli and he said, I've been over there. I've been helping those kids get to the light. They were so scared. I've been working with the parents.

Kristin (10:12.454)
Mmm.

Kristin (10:24.862)
Kristin (10:29.657)
Mmm. Mmm.

Kristin (10:35.698)
Mmm,

Kim Hodous (10:38.398)
And he's like, I have things I'm doing over here too. And I was like, got it son, got it. And so yeah, the nature of our connection has changed in that it's almost like we're in dialogue all the time. Whereas before it was very specific. I think as I was building that channel of connection with him.

Kristin (10:52.593)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin (11:04.335)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (11:04.662)
It was more, I sat in one chair, I sat in the same place. I energy cleared that space with my palo santo. I had all my tools there and I would always get my information from him in that one spot. And then I went on vacation and took my computer and he was still there. And now it's just like, I communicate with him all the time. Although I will admit,

Kristin (11:08.976)
Yeah.

Kristin (11:19.557)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin (11:27.781)
Okay.

Kim Hodous (11:33.218)
Sometimes if I have a really specific question or I'm up against a really big issue, I'll still pull out my computer and, you know, just, and more because I tend to remember it more when it's written down and I can go back and read it, you know, and then, and that's, in working with the moms, I mean, the other thing that came out of this, I'm jumping ahead maybe a little bit here, but, you know, he gave me,

Kristin (11:41.329)
Okay.

Kristin (11:47.223)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kristin (12:00.207)
We can time travel.

Kim Hodous (12:01.864)
Yeah, I didn't ever think I believed in that, but I do now. I realize anything's possible. But you know what, originally he had said he was going to go back into a body around a year. Not that we wouldn't still be able to connect because he said a portion of our soul always stays available. But he came to me and said he was not going to go back into a body yet because

Kristin (12:08.951)
Yeah.

Kristin (12:19.024)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (12:30.526)
he was going to give me a system to teach other moms how to connect with their children in the same way he and I had, which I know I can tell you the story about that though. was like, I don't think so, buddy. Thanks. But it wasn't me. You've done quite enough for me already, Rob. Thank you very much. Yeah.

Kristin (12:33.233)
Mmm.

Kristin (12:37.361)
So beautiful.

Kristin (12:51.089)
That's so funny. Yeah, there's a few things. I had a question around like did you have like the spiritual practices before like a certain ritual or routine before you like sat with them? It sounds like you meditated. And then I was curious if like you could sense like an energetic presence or more of like a trust that he was just gonna be there whenever you opened up the computer.

Kim Hodous (13:16.934)
so I wish I could claim I was a great meditator. Yeah. I try at it. Yeah. Yeah. I give it a shot. and I'll go through the stages. You know, I'll get my little app where I'm really like, you know, I want to see the little dot get filled in. It's like, I went.

Kristin (13:24.273)
I love the realness. I don't think I'm a great meditator. I keep trying. Yeah.

Yes!

Yes!

Kim Hodous (13:43.31)
10 days in a row and then I can go 10 days without, know, it's like, yeah. But I have always, I've journaled for years and years. And even though I'm not a good meditator, I've always, you know, believed in it and given it a shot. I mean, I've probably never gone a year without meditating, you know, but I don't, it's not, it doesn't come naturally to me. It doesn't come easy.

Kristin (13:46.641)
Yeah.

Kristin (14:00.623)
Yeah.

Kim Hodous (14:10.71)
And if I'm perfectly honest, it's not something that I like look forward to. Like, ooh, I can't wait to wake up and go meditate. Now, I will admit with Rob, I got to the point where I couldn't wait to get up and get in that still space and then connect with him. But I didn't, he has given me a very distinct process to teach mom.

Kristin (14:14.854)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Kristin (14:25.071)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kristin (14:37.602)
Mmm. Mmm.

Kim Hodous (14:38.134)
Now he's also said, this is in the book, and I start every cohort of mamas that I work with, that you don't need this. Those on the other side are so ready and willing to connect with you. You don't need a system, you just need to know you can do it. And I'm telling you, you can do it, so go do it. But if you can't just buy into that level of belief, then he has given me a step-by-step system to help mamas connect.

Kristin (14:46.435)
Okay.

Kristin (14:51.281)
you

Kristin (14:56.858)
Hahaha

Kristin (15:00.764)
Yeah.

Kristin (15:06.265)
I think that's so beautiful because I think it offers not only like a shifting or new perspective, shifting of a narrative around death or a new possibility or perspective around death. I totally believe that it's like an energetic transference or just like kind of maybe in some dimension that I'm not tapped into with all of my senses. But I've also had like some experiences with people that have died, like my dad multiple times. And so I don't know. just, I just had

I have this belief I'm like, yeah, we can totally communicate. I don't do it. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's so beautiful.

Kim Hodous (15:39.666)
Absolutely, you can. Yes, 100%. And I don't even know if I really want to say this. I've never thought of this until this moment. All I can say is what Rob has shared with me is that in the system he's given me is right now it's for moms to connect with their children. That's it. It's not to connect with Uncle Joe.

Kristin (15:55.876)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin (16:04.507)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kim Hodous (16:07.818)
I don't know that anybody could connect, like I don't think everybody's a medium. I don't know that everybody could connect with somebody for someone else, but I do think we can all connect with those people that are our sole family. Those people that we are intimately connected with, we've done many lifetimes with. I think that's a no brainer.

Kristin (16:19.013)
Mm-hmm

Kristin (16:22.617)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kristin (16:31.653)
Yeah.

Kim Hodous (16:32.142)
I don't think everybody has the ability to do it for other people, but I think we can all do it for ourselves. Yeah.

Kristin (16:35.791)
I don't think, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think that makes sense. I read this cool book called Signs One Time. It talks about like kind of building a relationship. And so I started, I think, with songs.

And I think I've told you I've done like ketamine therapy, called my ketamine oracle sessions. I've had my dad's spirit come through there. And so it's really neat. He's like, you have to ask. Or you have to, you know, you have to, I guess put forth some kind of intention. And I wanted to say earlier too, I know like we both mentioned that we're not good like typical or standard kind of meditators in a sense, like humming and or to ourselves or sit in silence.

Kim Hodous (16:54.562)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (17:01.996)
Yeah.

Kristin (17:17.969)
But I also think that journaling is a form of meditation because for me it's like a way to observe my thoughts. And if I think of meditation as, okay, if I'm sitting there and I'm being the observer of my thoughts or letting them go, I do that when I'm meditating. I write and look at my thoughts and that sort of, I mean, when I'm journaling, I look at them. To me that's meditating. So I think there's more ways than one. Maybe that just gives me some peace.

Kim Hodous (17:42.082)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you know, that's the beautiful thing about life. We get to define it for ourselves. You know, it's not a one. It doesn't have to look one way. It's.

Kristin (17:50.969)
Yeah, that's cool.

Yeah, I think I I think I tried to find one way along a lot, you know, I was like, what's the right way? Just tell me the right way and I'll follow it. But we do get to define and assign it and find the meaning. Did you have any hesitations to like sharing this journey or this process or just like overall?

Kim Hodous (17:58.958)
Yeah.

Kim Hodous (18:04.057)
Kim Hodous (18:18.402)
yes, sister, I still do. I mean, you know, I was just getting to the point where I was a little bit comfortable, telling people that Rob was coming through and talking to me. And then, you know, Rob's really driving the bus on this whole thing. I mean, he has convinced me that, you know, this was a karmic agreement we all made.

Kristin (18:19.469)
Okay. Okay.

you

Kristin (18:34.157)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (18:45.932)
We came in with this destiny. This is my work to do. And so, you know, it's taken me a while to digest that and own it. I'm still, I mean, it's still not something I publicize. Now, obviously once the book is out, it's gonna be out there in the world. When he came to me and said, you know, we'd been communicating for almost a year and said,

Kristin (19:05.551)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (19:13.442)
you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you a system to teach other moms. I said, to be perfectly honest, said, hell no. No, I said, you know, I mean, I am a motivational speaker. I'm the happiness speaker. I speak for corporations. I've spoken for Walmart. I've spoken for Toyota. I work in the corporate sector. I said, I'm not going to be that person. And also the one who raises her hand and says, and by the way, I can help moms.

Kristin (19:20.975)
Yeah.

Kristin (19:25.253)
Yeah.

Kim Hodous (19:41.12)
or really connect with their dead kids on the other side, which I don't believe anybody dies. The name of the book is I Didn't Die, I Just Changed Form. And Rob wants the subtitle to be In a Bunch of Other Shit We Have All Next Up. So, I know, it's totally Rob, that's for sure. Not sure what that's gonna be yet. I'm working with some people on that.

Kristin (19:43.846)
Yeah.

Kristin (19:49.293)
Yeah.

Kristin (19:59.6)
that.

Kristin (20:08.853)
Yeah.

Kim Hodous (20:10.848)
You know, I mean, because to me that was that was a whole nother level of vulnerability and exposure, not just, okay, now I have to own that I am doing this, but now I'm going to go teach it to other grieving mamas. And I, you know, I was just like, Rob, this is not for me. I'm not a psychic. I'm not a medium. I'm not a channel. I don't have the gift like bud. This is not my work to do. And he was like, yes.

Kristin (20:18.277)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin (20:24.753)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (20:39.648)
And he said, and mom, that's what's gonna make you perfect because the mom machine you're gonna work with, they're not mediums, they're not psychics, they're not channels, they don't have the gift. Like if you had that, then how would you teach them? This is just something that happens because the day that he really got me to say yes was when he said,

Kristin (20:42.715)
That's what I was just thinking.

Kristin (20:53.125)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (21:07.628)
You know mom, I'm meeting all these souls up here that desperately want to talk to their moms, especially those that have died of some kind of addiction or suicide, because often they've had substance use issues. They might have had mental health issues, and so they know that they've already put their parents through a lot. And so when they get to the other side, their their mom specifically is the first one that they usually want to talk to. And he said they are over here banging on the veil.

Kristin (21:16.475)
you

Kristin (21:25.659)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (21:37.55)
banging on the veil. And then he said, but mom, think about how much noise it makes when you bang on a veil. Their moms can't hear them. So I'm just gonna find the souls up here. You're gonna find the mamas down there and we're gonna bring them together. And I thought, and I knew the healing and the peace that it had brought me. And I know, you know, I've lost two of my children. I lost a daughter 30 years ago to leukemia. So.

Kristin (21:37.713)
Hmm

Kristin (21:46.545)
you

Kristin (21:52.977)
beautiful.

Kristin (21:59.717)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (22:06.074)
I know intimately that pain and that, God, that just, I mean, there aren't even words big enough to describe it. And so I thought if I can help mamas, you know, and most of them, they want to know why it happened, why it happened the way it did, is their child okay, what they're doing over there. I mean, so many of us have the same questions and then they can move on in such peace.

Kristin (22:09.103)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin (22:29.136)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (22:35.266)
when they get those answers that they're seeking.

Kristin (22:35.499)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No, I think that, like you being maybe a little hesitant towards it or like being like, I don't know about me being the one, like I do this. Like I also, like I wrote down, cause I'm like, this came up. Like being like the rock thrown into the water and the pond and like seeing the ripples like go out.

Like maybe you're the one, because you have that connection or access to certain corporate realms or people. You can be the one that makes change or influences or opens up new perspectives or possibilities on different levels and throughout the world. So I like that. And then also to know pain and grief and loss so intimately and deeply, like, that's a lot.

Kim Hodous (23:20.588)
Yeah, yeah, it is a lot. It is a lot.

Kristin (23:24.662)
And to help ease that is beautiful and offer peace to someone that is like you've walked the walk and are walking the walk and showing a path because you've been down that path. You can hold someone else's hand.

Kim Hodous (23:38.315)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's really the joy and the love of it so much is just, I mean, I cry as much as the mamas during class, know, when they finally get to connect and then they get this message from their child. And it's just like, can feel, it's a palpable feeling of them just like,

Kristin (23:59.025)
Mm.

Kim Hodous (24:03.586)
This is what they said, they're there. You know, I have a relationship with my child again. I've gotten to do so many beautiful things this lifetime. There's nothing that has ever matched this. Yeah.

Kristin (24:07.825)
Mmm.

Kristin (24:14.873)
Wow, yeah, I want to, I'm curious. Yeah, take me to that first day that you're when you're teaching like, well, what or open it up the space.

Kim Hodous (24:22.542)
Well, I have two friends that had both lost children. And so I asked them, so I had my pilot group of mamas, and then I started freaking out because I'm like, I really don't even know if this is gonna work. Rob's given me the system, but I don't know if it's gonna work or not. I've not done it with anybody. How do you know if it's gonna work? I believed it was gonna work, but I had no proof it was gonna work.

Kristin (24:28.741)
Mm-hmm. Mm.

Kristin (24:33.584)
Mm-hmm

Kristin (24:46.339)
Yeah.

Kim Hodous (24:49.59)
So I had two friends that had both lost children. And they, so they kind of did it with me. So it was, it felt gentle because it was women that I knew and trusted and they could, you know, give me feedback. And, and I always say every moment that's gone through the class connected. My best friend in the world didn't connect because she never did the work.

Kristin (25:02.308)
I'm here.

Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (25:14.83)
She didn't want to connect. She basically took the class so that she was supporting me. I have to be honest, as you could tell by the way, I couldn't get my sound to work. I'm not very techie. The part that was the most frightening to me was the technology of teaching an online course. It's like, I can do all the other worldly stuff, but trying to get my Zoom to record was...

Kristin (25:42.577)
you

Kim Hodous (25:44.43)
one of the biggest issues. you know, it was a beautiful process. And then my first pilot group of mamas, they all knew, you know, they were the pilot group. And they were just in it, every one of them. They were 100 % in it, and they did it phenomenal. And every mom connected. And I know every mom had a major healing. It was just beautiful. And then it's just blossomed from there.

Kristin (25:55.727)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kristin (26:04.901)
Yeah.

Kristin (26:11.249)
Mmm.

Did anyone come in like a little longing for the connection I can see? was anyone like hesitant or think that was outside the realm of possibility or just because they knew you or like saw what was possible? the other thing that I think is Is being evidence. Because I'm like being evidence of that it is possible opens up a new avenue, perspective.

Kim Hodous (26:29.632)
yeah, I know. Pardon?

Kim Hodous (26:42.254)
Yeah, yeah. I think every single mama, and I will include myself in that, questions at times, is it possible? I mean, I don't question that anymore, but in the beginning, it was just like, is this really Rob? And that's why I always have mamas write down the messages, because the way that I knew that it was Rob,

Kristin (26:52.59)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (27:10.688)
and it was not me was because I would go back and I would read what I had written and it was nowhere in my consciousness. It were concepts that were totally new to me. It was some, yeah, it was all stuff that, you know, I only ever put one message out on Facebook and I put his Mother's Day message out. And there was so much in that message that was just like had never been in my consciousness. You know, one thing he said was,

Kristin (27:18.15)
Really? okay.

Kristin (27:30.289)
Mmm.

Kristin (27:37.105)
Mmm.

Kim Hodous (27:38.338)
you know, being a mother takes so much love and energy and patience. He said lots of lifetimes after a soul has come down and been a mom, the next lifetime they don't because it just, it's almost like you just need a reprieve because being a mom is so intense. And I was like, well, that makes a lot of sense. I know I'm coming back as a big burly man next lifetime because I have done the mama thing this lifetime with five kids and losing two of them.

Kristin (27:51.249)
Mmm. Mmm.

Kristin (27:57.869)
Yeah.

Kristin (28:06.435)
Yeah, ugh.

Kim Hodous (28:08.172)
Yeah, so like I know it's not me, because I've never had that thought in my life. That wasn't my information. in fact, what's been really fun when I let some friends read the manuscript, just like I did you, they come back and they start saying stuff like, we'll be talking about something. They'll go, in the book, Rob says, and I'm like, I looked at one of my friends one time and I said, if you say Rob says one more time, and half the time I don't even remember.

Kristin (28:12.985)
Yeah, okay. Okay.

Kristin (28:26.801)
you

Kristin (28:33.907)
Thank

Kim Hodous (28:36.27)
I don't even remember what they're saying and again, I think it's because it's not my information per se

Kristin (28:41.812)
Okay, I guess that's one of the things that I was curious about, I didn't know I was curious about. Or like, you know, if you had maybe read about some of these concepts or like tapped into it in other ways. And so that's cool. And like, just to give people insight into like the background and like surprise, don't like a surprise and delight, maybe surprise and fright sometimes. I mean, I kind of want to ask you, like what were some of your favorite

Kim Hodous (29:01.836)
Yeah.

Kristin (29:08.495)
lessons or insights that he brought into your consciousness or that he gave you through writing it. And then I'm also curious about like a more challenging one.

Kim Hodous (29:16.595)
Mm-hmm. OK.

Kim Hodous (29:23.128)
So one thing he hammers so many ways, so many things are coming to mind, is in three or four different ways he says the same thing, but that basically there is no good and bad. One chapter is titled something about chocolate cake. basically he says, you you guys put so many constraints, this is good, that's bad. But he said,

Kristin (29:29.71)
beautiful.

Kristin (29:39.76)
Mm-mm.

Kristin (29:46.779)
Yeah.

Kim Hodous (29:53.07)
You know, chocolate cake at a birthday party is good. Chocolate cake, if you're on a diet, is bad. Like everything can be seen anyways. $500 is a good price for a luxury weekend at a five-star spa. $500 is not a good price for pizza. know, I mean. So everything can be everything. And you know, he just hammers home everything that is happening.

Kristin (30:00.367)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin (30:10.969)
Yeah.

Kim Hodous (30:20.014)
for happening to us is happening for us. I'm sure that you've probably heard that phrase. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With all you've been through as well, you know that it wasn't to punish you, wasn't to, you know, for nothing other than from what Rob has shared, you agreed to it before you came here.

Kristin (30:24.395)
I deeply believe it.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-mm.

Kim Hodous (30:43.062)
I kind of call it the bus stop conversation before you get on your next ride, you kind of stop, you talk to your people, okay, what's the next lifetime going to be about? What are going to be my issues? Who are going to be the main players? What's this going to look like? And then you, you know, go back, get in a body and then create the life that gives you those experiences. So a lot of that just, and you know, at one point he says, you know,

Quit feeling sorry for people going through hard shit. Like, that's how they're gonna grow. And you know, it's funny because in my keynotes on happiness, I talk about how we don't grow on vacation. We grow when we're in the middle of the muck. You know, we grow when we're, I call it AFO, another fun opportunity.

Kristin (31:14.043)
Mmm. Mmm.

Kristin (31:23.995)
Ha!

Kristin (31:38.715)
Man, we must have signed up for a lot of opportunities this lifetime.

Kim Hodous (31:41.282)
Yes, we did, we like our fun opportunities. And so, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you he just kept saying, don't feel bad for people going through hard stuff. They're burning up their karma. They're experiencing what they agreed to. And, you know, so often when people come out on the other side of...

Kristin (31:45.201)
I love that. AFO.

Kristin (31:52.901)
Mmm.

Mmm.

Kim Hodous (32:08.418)
When people come out on the other side of a difficult experience, that's where they have grown the most. That's where, that's, you know, those are the things that tell us who we are, where we've got to dig deep and go within and do our work. And we get spit out on the other side is, you know, changed human beings for the better, you know, that's, you know, and he says, you always have the choice to not.

Kristin (32:14.587)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin (32:21.211)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin (32:31.419)
Mm-hmm, for sure.

Kim Hodous (32:38.094)
to not do the work and then you just get to come back your next lifetime and do it again. And that's when I was like, okay, well screw that shit. I wanna deal with it this lifetime. Cause I don't wanna have to come back and repeat any of this. Like I wanna get it right this lifetime, clear this step and then I'm moving on. Yeah. Yeah.

Kristin (32:50.682)
Yeah. Yeah. there's so many gems in that. I feel like not I feel like I deeply believe even if I can't see it in the moment that it's working out for my that it's working for me that it's all that's working out for good. And then I love that we can go back or we can shift the narrative or assign a new meaning to it. If we once thought something was a quote unquote bad situation, we can see to see it in a new light.

yeah. then it's kind of interesting to say that, you know, quit feeling sorry for people that are going through a hard time. Yeah. Cause bringing them to me, it's like that contrast illuminates. It shows us like what we don't want to. And so they're just being shown like how much more you need another, you know, I kind of had a little epiphany. after I wrote my book, when my stepdad and you know, that whole scenario, I, a couple months,

Kim Hodous (33:31.95)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (33:35.66)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kristin (33:49.489)
after I actually now finished the first draft and it was COVID is like August 2020. And then my mom called me and told me that he had died. And I was like, at first I was reading this book called many lives, many masters at the time. And it's, it's so good. It's so good. And I was like, wow, not only am I reading this perfect book at this perfect time, I was able to just see like,

Kim Hodous (34:04.237)
Brian Weiss, I've read it like four times cover to cover. It's so good. It is so good. Yeah.

Kristin (34:17.061)
you know how much one like how much human happiness he had sacrificed and really like everything was I was like okay he had to come into my life and impact it in the positive and negative ways to have these like imprints on me to have these beliefs and then and then the abuse to have the betrayal to find the gift or the pearl within that so because it has offers the highest healing or a higher healing for expanded their consciousness and I was like

Like it was just like a moment. So I love that. Were there any other… Was that one a harder one or was it kind of like a both for you or one more difficult one to accept or was that just one that's like, okay, now I've been looking at life through this lens and this is a new lens. Like, well, how did that feel?

Kim Hodous (35:07.936)
Yeah, I mean, that was not such a hard, it wasn't hard to accept, it was hard to implement. Because, know, as a mama, when I see my children struggling, it's really difficult to go, you asked for this, you know. It's, you know, yeah. So I think it's always difficult to watch people we love struggle and suffer, but it did give me a new reality. One of the ones that was,

Kristin (35:13.521)
Mm-hmm. Mmm.

Kristin (35:18.64)
Yeah.

Kristin (35:23.194)
Yeah, yeah.

Kristin (35:29.615)
Hmmmm

Kim Hodous (35:36.588)
that really blew me away was the thought that when people come into our lives and hurt us in some awful way, whether that's abuse, betrayal, whatever it is, that there is much our soul family as the people that lift us up and love us.

Kristin (36:04.529)
Mmm.

Kim Hodous (36:05.55)
So the man that sold him the drugs, Ethan Driscoll, went to prison for 38 years. He was convicted for selling drugs and causing the death of a person. And the morning after Ethan's conviction, I of course opened my computer and said, Rob, what do you think? And he said that...

You know, he said, you have got to love Ethan in the same way you loved me. He said, before we incarnated, Ethan raised his hand to play this role in my life. And he said, I get toped. I'm just thinking about it. He said, you know, mom, I got to have you and dad as parents. You know, I mean, we were at every one of his tennis matches. spent.

Kristin (36:34.993)
Mmm.

Hmm.

Kristin (36:46.449)
Mmm.

Me too.

Kristin (36:52.614)
Mm.

Kim Hodous (36:57.166)
tens of thousands of dollars for sending him to camps and training and traveling and tournaments. He had siblings that absolutely adored him. We went on two or three vacations a year. I mean, he had a beautiful life. And Ethan had a mother who was an addict with a revolving door of men trying to get her addiction fed. He was addicted to meth by the time he was 12. He had a

Kristin (37:20.859)
Mm-hmm.

Wow.

Kim Hodous (37:26.03)
horrible life and Rob said, Mom, he raised his hand and had that role so that I could have the experience I did. And he's like, you have got to love him. You've got to give him that mama bear love that you gave me. And, you know, he said that the people that raise their hands to play the role of the perpetrator.

Kristin (37:35.771)
Mm.

Kristin (37:43.046)
Mmm.

Kim Hodous (37:54.798)
the persecutor, he said, we've really got to love them too because most of them don't have a great life. They've chosen a really hard role. They don't get the joy and the light and the love that, you know, those of us who aren't playing that role have available to us. And I mean, it was just like, I'm like, my God, that is such a radical concept. that.

Kristin (38:03.781)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin (38:15.781)
Mm-hmm

Kristin (38:21.498)
Yeah.

Kim Hodous (38:22.86)
to really see those people who hurt us as if they are in service to us.

Kristin (38:28.689)
Mm. Mm. Yeah, that. It's like just take a little moment on that one. Yeah, I mean.

Kim Hodous (38:36.246)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'll be perfectly honest, I have not reached out to Ethan yet. He's in jail? Yeah, yeah. I know I will. And I think once the book comes out, would, if I'm able to get him a copy of it, if not, I'll send him, yeah.

Kristin (38:43.961)
Yeah, I was curious. Yeah. Do you think you will? Okay. Yeah.

Kristin (38:52.297)
yeah, I think you can. There's some, yeah, I'm pretty sure that you can order it on Amazon. I mean, I have pretty sure. I'm like, how many exes do I have in the prison system? You can send them books. You just don't have to send it through Amazon. Well, I mean, that could be so freeing for his spirit too. You know, I mean, I only, I think I read or watched something, a news article or looked it up after I read your book too because I was just curious.

Kim Hodous (38:58.924)
Yeah.

I love it. Yeah, so.

Kim Hodous (39:22.072)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin (39:22.245)
about him or like, cause I think in the book you talk about the remorse or the crying or that he had displayed in court. And so I was like, I was just curious and like looking it up. I bet that could provide like his, I don't know, spirit or soul or something or humanness or I don't know, even just relief.

Kim Hodous (39:28.338)
Yeah.

Kim Hodous (39:41.25)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rob said, this was interesting too, I'd never thought of this, he said that he's actually quite an enlightened soul and that we don't always, people think that every lifetime you evolve and that he really is quite evolved this lifetime. He just decided to go back because he needed to learn empathy and I don't know what all Ethan plus.

Kristin (39:56.229)
Mm-hmm

Kristin (40:05.456)
Mmm.

I'm gonna go home.

Kim Hodous (40:10.078)
but that he had lessons he needed to learn and that he felt the best way to do it was to go back and have this kind of a lifetime, but that he's really quite enlightened. So I thought that was kind of cool too. I had always just assumed every lifetime we kind of, you know, become a little more enlightened.

Kristin (40:18.907)
Wow. Wow.

Kristin (40:27.282)
Like a clearing of karma or like if you're having that kind of result then maybe you had more karma to clear in that life. So that is an interesting perspective to look at. Because I was like, damn, what did I come here to clear? Like, how many lessons I got left? Or AFOs?

Kim Hodous (40:34.294)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Yeah.

Kim Hodous (40:47.694)
You're still a baby, honey. You got a lot coming.

Kristin (40:51.697)
I'm like, when do they stop? I mean, it's beautiful. I love this human experience, but at some point I'm like, Yeah, exactly. Yeah. please. Any other lessons or insights that you care to share from the book or that stand out to you?

Kim Hodous (41:01.664)
We're just going to ask for them in ease now. We'll take them in ease. Ease and grace.

Kim Hodous (41:22.306)
You know, Rob says, there's probably six or eight times in the book where he says, you know, the title of the book, I didn't die, I just changed form. He was so specific about that. You know, I did not die, I just changed form. And the first time he said that to me was through Eve. I had called Eve, I was just having one of those days where I was a mess. And I called her and I said, you know, Eve, why do have to die? And she goes,

Kristin (41:33.679)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin (41:44.197)
Mmm.

Kim Hodous (41:51.566)
And she goes, wait, Rob's here. He'd like to answer. she goes, Rob says, I didn't die, I just changed form. And he said, it's not my dying you have a problem with. You know I'm gonna die, we're all gonna die. We go in knowing the exit strategy. What you have a problem with is the timeline. And I said, yeah, I do have a problem with that timeline. 29. 29 doesn't work for me, know, 69, meh.

Kristin (42:02.769)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm... Mm-hmm...

Yeah

Kristin (42:19.515)
Yeah.

Kim Hodous (42:21.23)
89, I'm fine with that, but 29, yeah, I got an issue with that timeline. then he's like, well, you just need to be happy for me. I'm in bliss over here. And I was like, you little shit. I'm like, I'm gutted. I'm a mess, and you're over there dancing in the clouds. And he was like, I'm not a shit. was like, OK, OK, OK, I'll take it back.

Kristin (42:22.873)
Ha ha ha ha!

Mm-hmm.

Kristin (42:40.209)
You know, I was kind of pondering that little bit of that earlier. I like went to the chiropractor and just like, so I was like, let me get my on the chi machine, like getting get a home and flow before I come to our conversation. And I was thinking about the loss of my dad. And I think a lot of it, too, is that the attachment or like the deep attachment to the physicality, like the touch.

And it's like, can believe, I can believe, yeah. And maybe like the timeline, I can see that. Yeah, I'm like, why'd have to go so early? But also, yeah, I'm like that yearning for the comfort, I guess, that the physical presence used to give me. That's when I am like deeply attached to. Because I don't, like, I know you're there. it's still challenging at times for that, like that yearning for a hug.

Kim Hodous (43:28.406)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, Rob was such a big presence. You know, he was just, he gave the best hugs. He gave the best gifts. I have never ever met a man or heard of a man that gave gifts better than Rob Hodes. He, every gift he's given me, I still have, I mean, he would, he just, think because he was so sensitive and he paid attention, he just, the things he would give me were always so surprising. It's like, how do you know? Sometimes he,

Kristin (43:42.394)
Hmm.

Kim Hodous (44:02.574)
he'd give me something and I'd think, why am I even gonna use this? And it ends up being one of my favorite things. He just had a beautiful sense of that. And, you know, he called me mamacita. And when Rob walked in a room, when Jordan, we all spoke at his funeral and Jordan started his thing, went, woo hoo! I mean, Rob was like walking in a room and it's just like he had to announce, here I am, you know? And I just missed that big personality of...

Kristin (44:25.921)
you

Kim Hodous (44:30.562)
when Rob arrived, you knew he was there and he was fun. He was just fun and his book's fun. know, his book is just, it's, I mean, there's a lot of customers. There's a lot of, you know, just realness. I mean, his personality, you know, called the protective personality, but that essence went with him because he's, you know, his book is very much like he was in life.

Kristin (44:32.966)
Thank

Kristin (44:38.085)
Mm-hmm.

I like it. Yeah.

Kristin (44:56.859)
Mm-hmm.

You know, I found it easy to read and it kind of just felt like a conversation with an old friend or that I was listening to like just an old friend telling me the conversation was like as it unfolded. I thought it was beautiful. I just liked how, yeah, it just flowed and was simple and just easy to read. I didn't get distracted. There was no like, you know, anything too flowery that can like serve as a distraction. Yeah. No.

Kim Hodous (45:04.865)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (45:22.497)
Yeah, Rob wasn't flowery. He pretty much calls it straight out.

Kristin (45:31.637)
Do you think that your book or connecting with him in this manner or way helped his siblings at all or helped the family unit to heal or go through this healing process?

Kim Hodous (45:46.07)
You know, I don't know that it really has. I've sent it to them, just the manuscript. I don't know that they've even read it. When I am with them and I bring it up, it's almost like there's an awkward silence when I'll say, Rob said. you know, just, again, Rob has taught me that everybody's on their own journey.

Kristin (45:50.118)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kristin (45:57.368)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin (46:14.801)
That's what I was just thinking.

Kim Hodous (46:16.206)
It's gonna be out in the world and they'll either embrace it or they won't. None of them have really connected with him. I think his sister, Allie, has felt his presence a couple of times. I mean, I think all of the kids have probably felt his presence. Even though he has said, I'm available to them in the same way I'm available to you, none of them have connected to him in the way that I did.

Kristin (46:42.352)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (46:45.802)
So no, it's not, it kind of hasn't happened by transference. They have not, it is, I guess the way that it has helped is that it has brought me so much peace. It has really helped me with my grief. So I believe a healed mama helps heal a family. So I would think it has helped somewhat in that way, but.

Kristin (46:51.727)
Yeah.

Kristin (47:02.171)
Mm-hmm.

Kristin (47:09.423)
Yeah, for sure.

Kristin (47:14.416)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (47:15.146)
known that none of them have really embraced it like I thought that they might.

Kristin (47:18.864)
Yeah.

Or maybe not yet. do. mean, I could I could sense how it could impact in multiple ways. Like maybe there's a hesitation around it or that like I feel I felt like when I've gotten received information, like I want to share this with all of my loved ones. Like they need to know this like, then I see them and it just like kind of falls or lands on deaf ears. And so it kind of goes back to what you said.

Kim Hodous (47:38.702)
I'm sorry.

Kristin (47:47.441)
It's not on the timeline of the acceptance or the readily like, my God, thank you for opening this awareness or new pathway. Everyone has to kind of come to their own conclusion or come to that point when they're ready for it. And I guess it could in some ways also shift or open up a new, like if you're looking through life through one window and then suddenly you have a new window to look at, but it also colors everything that you've ever experienced before in your life.

I could sense why you might be a little hesitant to look through the other window. Even if it is like gorgeous fistas and you beautiful views and opportunities and all that thing. It's because I feel like we get so tied or the known provides so much comfort. And so like what is in that other window can still be unknown even if it is beautiful. And so, and so we still got, it's coming in springish, February, March.

Kim Hodous (48:16.664)
Yeah.

Kim Hodous (48:34.786)
Yeah.

Kristin (48:42.054)
Anything else that you want to share around it or the process of connecting with moms or how to connect or reach with you any of that

Kim Hodous (48:49.804)
Yeah, well, my website is messagesformoms.com. The whole program is there. It's a six to eight week program. it's, you know, there's a mama out there who desperately wants to connect with her child and doesn't know how or believe they can do it. You can do it. I I got no special gifts. I just got a system.

Kristin (49:01.669)
Mm-hmm.

Kim Hodous (49:17.524)
And it really has brought me so much healing. And I think the book is universal. It's gonna be for everybody. And I'm just super excited to get that out in the world and yeah, help people kind of just open their eyes a little bit. So yeah.

Kristin (49:20.443)
Mm.

Kristin (49:27.537)
I do too.

Kristin (49:34.065)
That's exciting. Yeah, it's exciting too. It's also something that you haven't written on before. Also stretching you in new ways. Well, I appreciate you coming to just share and speak into this. And I think it totally will help like raise the collective consciousness too and offer a lot of hope and healing for a massive amount of people. I think it too will even go beyond moms and just anyone connecting with that soul family.

That's just my take to possibly. Okay.

Kim Hodous (50:04.108)
Yeah, well, Rob has told me that. He has said there's more programs and there's more books. And I said, stop, put on the breaks. I'm like, buddy, it's been three years. have flipped my world upside down twice. I'm like, you've got to let me catch my breath. So I know there's more coming. I'm just, I mean, I really have. just said, Rob, you gotta, you gotta let me catch up, man.

Kristin (50:14.001)
No

Yeah. Okay.

Kristin (50:28.505)
Yeah, beautiful. Like one step at a time. That's all we can do anyway, really. Even though sometimes that one step is a quantum leap.

Kim Hodous (50:33.454)
Yeah.

Yeah, yes, yeah.