53. Exploring Death, Psychedelics, & Book Writing with Eleanor Evans Medina

Eleanor Evans Medina is a formally trained marriage and family therapist turned spiritual teacher. A nature lover, an avid meditator, and a manifestor. She is a mindset, business, and somatic coach. A writer, a death doula, a sister, a friend, and the CEO of The Makaranda Method.

Watch the episode here.

Summary

In this conversation, Eleanor and Kristin explore themes surrounding death, grief, and the human experience. They discuss the role of psychedelics in understanding mortality, the importance of connecting with ancestry and spirituality, and the healing power of nature. Eleanor shares her journey towards becoming a spiritual teacher and the ethical considerations of writing, especially in the age of AI. The conversation culminates in a reflection on the power of song and storytelling as a means of connection and healing.

Takeaways

• Death is a universal experience, and exploring our curiosity and understanding of death can lead to personal growth and spiritual insights.
• Psychedelics can provide insights into our understanding of death. 
• Reconnecting with nature is essential for our well-being and can provide valuable teachings and reminders of our interconnectedness.
• Connecting with our ancestors can enrich our spiritual journey.
• Licensing as a therapist may have limitations, and there are alternative paths, such as being a spiritual teacher, that allow for a more holistic and global approach to healing. 
• Using AI to write books raises questions about the integrity and authenticity of the content. Writing should come from a place of authenticity and integrity.
• Personal experience and expertise are essential in writing and teaching on a specific topic.
• Birthing one's story is an act of self-love and can be a transformative journey.

Chapters

00:00, Introduction and Background

03:15, Psychedelics and the Spiritual Exploration of Death

05:20, Reconnecting with Nature and Our Interconnectedness

12:34, The Evolution of Practice: From Therapist to Spiritual Teacher

35:19, The Importance of Personal Experience and Expertise in Writing

38:28, Birthing Your Story: An Act of Self-Love and Transformation

45:24, Raising the Vibration of Content Creation

53:48, The Power of Sharing Stories that Provide Value and Promote Love and Connection

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Kristin's Best-Selling Book:
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Transcript

Kristin: 0:00

I'm Kristen Burwall, and this is Back Dry Pencil. Welcome. All right, guys. So I have another episode of the podcast up, and this one is with Eleanor Medina. We met in Austin at the pre-launch event for NABA, which stands for the natural art of being alive. And so we're just humans navigating this live experience. And we have a couple things in mind today to talk about. And I'm just excited to get going.

SPEAKER_00: 0:33

Yeah, thank you, Kristen. Happy to be here.

Kristin: 0:36

Yes. So I was like reading your bio and like so many different things popped up. And I was like, oh, interesting. Let's chat about it. Um and one of them too is the death, a death doula. So I just had Jen Reno, Jen Renault, um, Reno, I don't know why I got tongue-tag there, on the podcast, like um, and her episode's coming out in a week or so. And she mentioned that she's curious about uh becoming a death doula. And then I had a um bodywork session about a week or two ago with someone, and they're like, oh, something about um, what about it being a death doula? And I was like, interesting. And then and then I read this on your website and I'm like, can we please chat about it and explore it? Because there's a part of me that thinks that I've been um, you know, I believe we can gather a lot of wisdom from our wounds and stuff like that. And there used to be, I used to question and ask myself, like, why did I why have I experienced so much laugh and grief in my life, loss and grief in my life? And so I would just love for you to share your experience on Death Doula or how you came into that realm or what it means to you, any of that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:46

Oh yeah, thank you for the question. It's it's a tender, very human act. We're all going to die. We all die, every being. And I've always been interested in death, and I think a lot of us come to death with a curiosity around what is happening? Where do we go? It's it's it tends to be very existential. Why asking those why questions, like you mentioned? And I always used, I remember looking at myself in the mirror when I was six years old and like pinching my skin and being like, This is me? Like, am I am I real? Whoa, this is wild. And I've always been an existential thinker. Why are we here? I would ask those big, deep questions. I was always questioning religion and wanting to know about what lies beyond. And so there really just I started working with psychedelics when I was a therapist. When I was first entering into my therapeutic practice, I heard about psychedelic therapy. And inevitably, in this psychedelic therapy session, death came up for me. And I was able to really face it head-on in a different way than I had when I was younger. And people would start going through, like this is very common. This idea of really facing mortality would come up, and and I thought, I need to, as a therapist, if I'm supporting people in facing their death on a spiritual level, not on a physiological level, but on a spiritual level, I actually want to experience being with people on the physiological and physical level as well. And so I did a death doula training, just a weekend training. And it's funny because we're all death doulas. We don't need a training to become a death doula because we're all face this, every single one of us. Life and death, and every in-breath is the life, and every outbreath is the death, and so it's so intimately connected as to who we are. So it's no wonder that people are starting to talk about this more. Our society, I mean, there's so much I could say, Kristen, but our society pushes death away. We literally send people into caskets that are hard wood that combust underground at 10 feet deep, where no life is, no microbes are alive that deep in the ground to break down the human body. We should be wrapping ourselves, in my view, in in straw bales, in in just a piece of fabric, just a couple inches down in the ground, where there's life, where we can actually be returned to the soil, and then that soil is rich. Not with burial sites that we can never touch again. Right? Like there's tons of new, new but old ways to die, like human composting and sea burials, and I mean there's I actually held um a write your will party at my house a couple of months ago. It was amazing, and a lot of young people came, our age, you know, in their late 20s, mid-30s, because we all need to have a living will because we have things and it's a big deal to die, and we never know what it's gonna happen. So I am now, so I did that death doula training, I've learned a lot, and now I'm just starting to volunteer at a hospice, and I haven't officially started that at this point in the podcast. Um, that, but I'm planning on finishing. There's actually a ton of work to do. Like I'm in the middle of taking seven exams.

SPEAKER_01: 6:22

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00: 6:22

So I've think I've finished, or maybe there's nine. I've finished like six of them, so I have three more to do. You know, making sure that I'm HIPAA compliant. And how do we like it's basically like a nursing training program? So I'm in the process of finishing that, and then as soon as I do, I'll be actually able to sit with people as they die. But you know, it's just this, it's just learning for me, it's learning how to breathe and learning how to be with people with whatever is arising, which is what I do in my work anyway. And what a gift to be able to be a calm, grounded, connected presence for somebody in one of their most important transitions in life.

Kristin: 7:06

When they're about to greet death. I mean, that's beautiful. And I think of myself too. It's like whenever and in stories and storytelling, I've been really focusing in on like the the Phoenix and like the death, birth, regeneration, and singing as well. And so I'm like, how many times in my life have I have I been like, okay, what piece of me or part of me is dying, and then what is being born again? And so I think in that way, it's like we can there's little parts of ourselves that die too. So that's beautiful. And it also gives me an idea, it's like, oh, maybe look into like some hospice, um, you know, places to volunteer or sit with or just like toy up because I'm like, if it keeps coming up, because I think there's like such a balance. I love being like the story doula, but that that's like helping birth and life and uh live new stories and that sort of thing. But then the death side, I'm like, I love the balance and the duplicity of you know that cycle. And what beautiful way are like different offerings too to like go back into the earth versus um something that's like maybe a little more cold. And with the Wills thing, it's like, yeah, I would I don't want to cause any like family strife when I'm gone. Um so it's like how can it make how can we make this the most peaceful transition? Um, you mentioned sitting with plant medicines too. Which ones have you sat with?

SPEAKER_00: 8:24

Wow. Um most? Yeah. Oh what like maybe a better question. What is my non medicine? Yeah, okay. No, I was curious. Um I would say that the medicines that I am most intimately connected with are uh psilocybin mushrooms and an ayahuasca. Okay, the grandmother of the earth, the death vine. And ayahuasca is actually called ayahuasca is translated to the death vine. It's actually what her name is. And we say we say her because she's also seen in in many cultures as the grandmother of the earth, and um she is uh a vine that grows in the Amazon and in the jungle, um, beautiful vine. And then typically there's a leaf called a tricuna leaf that is boiled, they're boiled together for you know, upwards of 30 hours sometimes, and then a brew is created, and then typically there's uh a facilitator, uh some traditions use shamans. I've um sat with a woman who calls herself a vehetelista, which is um basically a gardener, means a vegetable woman. Um and so we all were just working with the plants that are here for us to help wake us up and remind us who we are as interconnected beings, and yeah, yeah, these medicines have changed my life.

Kristin: 10:14

Same. Like I had a profound experience on mushrooms, and like speaking of blending death and psychedelics, um, I'll share a little story and then I would love to hear about some moments, how like they were instrumental on your path and journey. Um, I my after my dad had died, I kind of have like had thought that I was just at this new baseline of joy um without or living life without him in it in the physical realm. Like he had visited me in dreams and stuff like that, but I was just like, okay, maybe this is just my new normal. And then um I like heroic dose of psilocybin mushrooms. I like felt like I astral astral projected, I felt his presence. I was like, oh my god, you've been here the whole time. You never abandoned me. And it was like a reset button for Joy. It really was. Oh my goodness. Yeah, no, crying. I was like crying and feeling his presence and uh smelling him and laughing at the absurdity and the idea that he would be gone, um, or that I could even think that, you know, as far as like the abandonment thing. Um and then I actually just recently had an interesting one. I've started ketamine-assisted psychotherapy. And so I've had some really I've had two sessions in that. And like you brought up harvest on like, yeah, in the first session, there's like corn or something. I'm like, why am I in a cornfield? And then and then the second one, um, it like kind of built on that and it was like, stay for the joy, stay for the harvest. And I just love those like metaphors too. Um, and then the second one, it's like my dad's inner child was there, and like we were like playing with one another. It was just so beautiful and like releasing some of like the ancestral trauma and wounds and just emotions that he never processed and felt.

SPEAKER_00: 11:56

Wow.

Kristin: 11:56

Uh it was like he was like, he goes, Yeah, sorry about that. But we were like laughing and dancing, it was just so beautiful, and so like so grateful that I said yes to it. And so I'm curious if you've had any other like moments or pivotal um sessions with you know, mushrooms that you care to share, feel open to sharing too. Cause I feel like there's so much medicine in our stories.

SPEAKER_00: 12:19

Yeah. Wow, thank you for sharing. Um, I love I I hear the the ancestral lens and the ancestral thread that comes through a lot with the plants. It's it's very common. Listeners out there who may be familiar with plant medicine might understand that that we do see often people who we've lost. Um, and also people who are alive uh within our family lineage. That's quite common. And those who aren't familiar, this might be new information, and maybe you don't have much of an experience with your ancestors or lineage, or maybe you do in dreams, and there are other ways to tap into the lineage beyond just through plants. Um but I I had an experience with my this was with with ayahuasca, but um my grandmother who I was named after came to me uh in an ayahuasca journey, and I was named after her. And she had died before I was born, but she said she and I were just best friends, and she she just said, Eleanor, I love you so much. You're doing so great. I want you to keep moving forward, keep trusting yourself. And we had this whole dialogue. I was asking her all of these questions, and she was responding to me. I didn't physically see her, but I felt her and I could hear her voice. And it was a really important affirmation for me. This was my very, very first time sitting with ayahuasca back in 2016. And your grandmother, with the grandmother, with the grandmother. Honestly. Yeah, like of course, you know, but this this type of experience happens where you know, I was sitting in, I was in Peru sitting with ayahuasca just a couple weeks ago, and uh someone on the trip had reminded me, he said, you know, typically, Eleanor, if we think about it, usually when we think of our ancestors, we think of one, two, three generations, or even our parents and then our grandparents and then our great-grandparents. Like, maybe you know your great-great-grandparents. Like, do you know their names? You know, kind of like it's like, oh well, not off the top of my head. Exactly. And then this man said, and and I don't know if this is an exact quote, but it real so you know, maybe somebody fact check. But he said, We have 1700 grandparents.

Kristin: 15:17

I'm like, that's a lot, I'm like, I'm like what if you didn't Do we all have cookies? Do they all bite we not teasing?

SPEAKER_00: 15:30

But how interesting to think about how far back our lineages go. And I think the the magic of the plants are that they were meant they remind us that we're all like can you imagine how many of us are also then related and how we're all connected to each other? And when we can remember our ancestors, they can give us information and they can remind us that they're not actually gone like your dad did. We're right here, we've just changed forms, but we're still available, our love is still here for you. We haven't abandoned you, we love you.

Kristin: 16:11

We're here to support we can support you.

SPEAKER_00: 16:13

Yeah, we can have a relationship with them.

Kristin: 16:16

I know some I tell some people that because of the amount that my dad and I's relationship has grown since his physical death. Like we had uh and this was like in 2013. So like that we had a relationship and one that hold dear to my heart up until that point. But it was beyond that that you know, I came to discover so many gifts within the grief process that um like I shifted, you know, I saw things that I was projecting onto him about like, you know, not accepting me or like working for pride or like working for him to be proud. When I read something the other day, it was like, Oh, he's proud when I was born. Never had anything to work for. You know, just like it just it's been it's been profoundly um healing and just a beautiful journey beyond death. And so I just think that's cool. That and also that that you know, sometimes plants can help connect those dots or help weave in the you know, like little missing pieces of information or open our ourselves up to receiving or being available to some of that interconnectedness or something, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 17:18

Yeah, definitely, and that's why you know my work is first and foremost to reconnect us with nature, yeah. That's my work. I mean, yeah, I'm a I have a marriage and family therapy degree, but I think if we're not connected to the great mystery, which is spirituality, and if we're not connected to the earth, our home, the creator of everything that we have in this life, then we're never gonna heal. In my lens of therapy. Um and it's it's not typical, like a lot of so all most of my sessions are outside. Okay.

Kristin: 18:08

I love that.

SPEAKER_00: 18:08

They it's the best. It's like, why would I do therapy inside where we're practicing presence, but we're just talking about presence. We're not actually listening to the birds who are giving us information, we're not feeling the wind on our skin, we're not able to notice what nature is sharing with us on a regular basis when we're inside all the time. And I feel grateful that I live in a beautiful place, Colorado, where I can be outside a lot, even in the cold. I recommend to my clients like, let's go outside, let's be in the natural cycles, the the seasons to give us information to remind us, like, oh wow, it's it's summer at the moment, and it's actually starting to be fall, and it's getting a little bit colder at night. And what is that bringing forth in us? And how are the plants changing? And look at how they die. Like the plants teach us how to give birth, how to grow, how to flower, and they also teach us how to die, how to go inward, how to wrap inside, how to get tight, you know, how to sleep.

Kristin: 19:33

Have you always been a nature lover, or is it something like how did it because I like I find this is one of the reasons why I I got this place is because it has direct access to a little tiny yard. So I'm like, I if I when I need to go put my feet on the earth barefoot, I can. Um and so is that like sensory? I know you mentioned like listening to the birds and feeling the wind on your skin. And um, I love like kind of that whole like sensory ground. Kind of practice of being present in nature. Um, I'm curious about like how you started to blend that into your work, or how was it always just kind of like an innate knowing, or how did it come about?

SPEAKER_00: 20:15

Oh, I mean it started when I was little. I was just anxious, and I used that word, and I think it's actually important to explain because a lot of people throw it around. They're like, I'm anxious. So when people say I feel anxious, I want to invite you to actually notice what's happening to the body. So what was happening for me was I would um I would feel like my hands would start to clench and had to swallow. I had to like itchy, my clothes were itchy and I was tight, and just was like discomfort in my physical body and tightness in my chest, and like a collapsing when I was inside. And I would just as soon as I would step outside, I would play and I would jump around, and we had a trampoline, and I was always on the trampoline, and my dad would take us outside, and he would point out the birds, and my dad's a nature lover. My grandmother, she was the head of the ornithology department. Wow. Um, or she was the head of the you know, the Audubon Society where she lived, so she was a really big birder, and I I really feel like this is the grandmother that I met in the ayahuasca ceremony, so sh who I was named after, so I feel like it was also given to me. Like this gift of being an earth lover was passed down, and and when I was sponsoring my practice, you know, it just made sense. I've I've studied eco psychology, went in my undergraduate degrees, and always did backpacking trips and always found found found myself, felt the most spiritual, most alive, you know, like nature was my church. Oh yeah, totally get that. And so I just thought, well, yeah, let's just do my work outside and my practice just took off. Um because people resonated with that, especially in Colorado. It's like, you know, mountain, it's it's nature place.

Kristin: 22:34

So yeah, it's the perfect place for my work. That's beautiful. And so I'm curious like um about the evolution of your practice, too, because formerly trained marriage and family therapists turned coach. Um, and I have been toying with the idea of going back to school and getting a master's degree at least, and um for potential practice. There's an element of me too that believes like, oh, anything more that I write will be given a little more credit. Um, I love like your take on our recommendation recommendations for licensing or not, how you feel about it, um, or any insight you have there.

SPEAKER_00: 23:15

Oh my god, I have so much to say. Okay, so this is something that I practice when I get a question that feels like I have so much to say. I'll close my eyes for a few breaths and I'll just ask, just ask myself, and maybe if you're listening, you just want to take a few breaths as well. What's the heart of what I want to share? What's the heart of this answer? As a marriage and family therapist, I felt like I disagreed with a lot of what I learned in grad school. And I would not change that education at all. I think, you know, it was an extra, it was a lot of financial and emotional and physical and spiritual work to go back to school to be a therapist, which I loved. It's very much like look at all the lenses of which of ways that you might get activated in session and look at your own, look at your stuff, look at who you are so that you can be really clear so that when you're with clients, you can you can be with them. But there were a lot of things that I learned that didn't work for me. Like, for example, I really wanted like I'm a global practitioner and I love working with people all over the world. That my husband and I lived in Mexico for a couple of years, and I worked with people in Mexico, and I have clients who live on the East Coast, and clients I have a client who lives in Africa, and you know, there's Europe, and I love being a global practitioner. I think it gives me a different worldview than if I'm licensed in Colorado, then I can only work with people who live in Colorado, for example. And that felt limiting to me. And other aspects of this idea that, and and sometimes this really works for people. I've just speaking for personally, um like working with people who I know and who I've been in community with.

Kristin: 25:18

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 25:20

Because I think it goes back to our roots where we're all connected and we're all here to support each other. And I have this gift of really being able to listen well and offer teachings and reflections and and like I don't understand why I can't work with somebody who already under like trusts me and feels me and who I see. It's very it's very uh Western in my opinion to not be able to have contact. Like if I were to if I were to have a license and I were to see a client in a grocery store, I'm not allowed to go up and say hi to them. They actually have to approach me because somebody might ask them, like, how do you know that person? Yeah, and then it might put them in a weird situation where they have to say, That's my therapist, or they lie. And I want therapy to be a natural part of our existence. Wow, this person's actually so what I've recently called myself, and I learned this in this most recent ayahuasca ceremony. I I asked ayahuasca said, you know, I know Eleanor, you've been really tr figuring out like what do you call yourself? Are you are you a coach? Are you a therapist? And she said, actually, you're a spiritual teacher.

Kristin: 26:42

I love the language of that.

SPEAKER_00: 26:44

That is your title, and that's what you need to go by. And I I got really overwhelmed. Um, I was having a huge purge experience, and any type of self-doubt that I had was just released entirely from my body during that time. And she said, This is part of what we're asking of you to go beyond the titles and step more into the spiritual teachings that you and that I embody. And so that's actually honestly, that was just a couple weeks ago. So this is a new way of thinking about it, but I will say there's value in being licensed in some capacities, and there are withdrawals, like there's there's downsides as well. I'm not sure exactly what that's gonna look like for me. I think um we're always getting more information all the time. But at this point, um, saying really being a teacher and owning that, and um perhaps getting a license to work with plants is something that I'm really interested in. That's starting to become available in Colorado in the next couple of months. So I'll be looking into that.

Kristin: 28:08

Beautiful. Like, I'm such a proponent for that. I'm very open and curious about that stuff too. Um I'm like, uh, yes. Um, I'm like, there was a question that I had. I'm having a little brain fart moment. Yeah, I know what it was. Um so there a friend of mine recently gave me some information into like hacking degrees or like gathering that knowledge, and it's like um for like m pursuing a master's or something. And I don't think I'd ever regret like growing and and stuff like that. There's a few things that are coming up for me right now. Um because I also want to touch on like the publishing information that you sent me, and I'm like, because I hacking a degree, I don't necessarily have a problem with hacking a way to write a book, I have some issues and reservations with it. So it's very interesting. Um, but just like just like language and the way that the word spiritual teacher register with me or resonate with me versus the word coach versus the word um even not necessarily therapist as much, but I just feel like coach kind of like for some reason gives it has a negative connotation associated with me in some aspects. I like that for me, spiritual teacher or teacher in general. Um, also it just seems like more open and receptive and kind of like showing you like what I've walked to walk the path, to show you the path or help you out of the way. And I'm also not opposed to being a student. It's like I love like that you know, balance of student and teacher. Um thank you for that reflection. That feels helpful to hear. I love, I just I think I'm like that one, I'm like that resonates with me anyway. Um and so it'll be cool to see like how it evolves from this conversation and onward into like your offerings and that sort of stuff too. Um so if you're if we're ready, we could I would love to chat about the the publishing, like using AI to put because I know you're getting ready to also share your story with the world and write a book which is so freaking exciting. I share with you one of the greatest acts of self-love I've ever given myself. It's such a beautiful journey. And that's why when I see something that like you writing a book with AI, my I immediately like have this like oof reaction to it. I think for me, there's um there's an aspect of it that I can think that it can be used to support the journey and not the whole entirety of the journey. Because I feel like the when I wrote mine, there was such there were so many aha moments. There were so many, it was just so rewarding. And like I'd wanted to do it for like over a decade and listening to that longing and no longer abandoning oneself or the fear of like how others would perceive, or you know, there's so many different fears to navigate to, or that can come up that may arise. They're not true for everyone, but it can come up for a lot of people. And so just using AI to write it, it brings up questions. I know you mentioned of integrity. Um, if people are are don't know anything about the subject matter. Yeah. And that's scary. It's scary. Especially if we're thinking about how we're passing on like our messages and wisdom and tradition for future generations, going back to ancestry and connecting those thoughts.

SPEAKER_00: 31:23

Exactly. I'm like, ooh. Exactly. Yeah, so I have been talking to Kristen about supporting me with my book, right? And there are there's also just of course, as soon as I say that I'm interested in writing a book, all these books everything on the internet is like, write your book, you know, yes, of course, because it's listening to us at all times, and um, and so I got sucked in on Instagram to this ad that was basically around writing your book and putting it on Amazon and selling it on Audible, you know, and that's a way to make a lot of money. And he says, you know, pick a topic, you don't have to know anything about the topic, just pick a topic and then put it into their software, their ai publish.com software or something like that, and then work with a ghostwriter to write your book, and then get somebody else to read it for you, to put it on Audible, and then put it on Amazon. I mean, there was nothing like read through the book, make sure that it resonates with you, um, make sure that you know and I mean it was like he was literally like, you don't have to know anything about the topic, and all the hairs on the back of my neck were just like alert, alert, alert, like this is not okay in my body, physiologically was like, no. And I think it just brings up this question around people who are teaching on things that they don't know anything about. Like, for example, for example, like I don't want to work with a psychedelic therapist, let's just use that, if they don't have any experience working with psychedelics.

Kristin: 33:31

True.

SPEAKER_00: 33:32

That is a hard no for me. I want the people who I'm learning from to know intimately the work that they're doing. I want to learn from a nutritionist who takes care of themselves and eats well. Absolutely. For example, I what you know, it's like, and then this whole thing of like anybody can know anything, and anybody can make money writing any book on any topic, and you don't have to know any. It's just it's scary to me. And it's feeding into this um, it feels predatory, and it feels like for the for the financial gain of it. And finances are amazing. Love money, thank you, money. Yeah, we love it. Yes, I do. Money loves me. Oh my god, I have to I have to send you.

unknown: 34:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 34:31

She just recorded it, it's gonna, she's gonna launch it in the next couple of months on Spotify. But anyway, it's so good. It's all about loving money, and money's so amazing. It really is. It's such a beautiful resource, but anyway, it when it's only for the financial gain, we're losing the heart of it. And like you said, giving writing a book was such an act of self-love for you. And I don't want I don't want that to be taken away from people. And also, like, we need to learn our own voices.

Kristin: 35:05

I think yeah, for sure. And like sometimes, yeah, what sometimes when you get started, you think you're gonna write one thing and another, but then you're like, oh, I was actually shown this. And yeah, it just speaks to like with the AI stuff, like, okay, yeah, they're not either embodying their teachings if they don't know enough to like really write about it, or you know, and you can use total, there's so like you can speak your story, and that's totally cool. You can use it tools to like support your writing journey, sure. But to like, you know, uh that's just scary for me because my imagination, I've always had a hyperactive imagination. I'm like, oh snap. I'm like, could someone just like how many aliases could they create and just pump out all these different books? And then, like, are there even people behind the the books that you're reading? Or I mean, like, there's just like there's a whole I'm like, oh, avenue or imagination that I'm like, you know, I don't want to send too much energy to it, but I'm like, it's just like it's just scary and I don't like it. And uh and beyond the reasons of because I'm in the field helping people bird their stories, it's just scary.

SPEAKER_00: 36:08

Yeah. And it's like, yes, AI is an amazing tool. I like to think of it as a sketch pad. Yeah. You know, it helps me think of some ideas and helps me get creative. And also it says that it takes all the information from the internet, but it's like we know that a lot of the information on the internet's not real. True.

Kristin: 36:30

Like it's all there's a lot of false stuff, there's a lot of yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:35

So yeah, it just there's some there's some warnings that I think we're all going to need to have an awareness on as AI starts to contribute even more to our society. And I would love now to talk about you know how you and I might work together. Where and how do you help people birth their stories and how so how would you help, for example, how would you help me birth my story uh so that it resonates that it's true for me, but then you also are in supportive in the process. I'd love to know your journey with that and how we might be able to do that together.

Kristin: 37:25

Yeah, no, and I will say it looks different for every person that I worked with. So it's very individual. Like I take all the different tools in my tool belt, and sometimes uh they shift or like for what's needed in the moment for what person, and there's different uh pathways. Like I am working with someone right now where we ghostwrite, and I do I use um actually this platform right here, we record on it because I can get the transcription from it, and then I can pull from and use her voice to like compile into the document, and that's after outlining. Um, so there's there's big like content call gathering period. Um, we're gonna have some calls uh with her family members too. They're very much like supportive of the process and journey. And I did that before for another memoir. I love memoirs. It also depends on like what type of book you're writing or interested in writing. Um, I work with a gentleman, and we he was sharing it was we had a lot of, and it's more like guidance through the journey. So he's doing the writing portion of it, and I'm kind of like the coach, the editor, the guide. I really like the word guide versus coach. Um, like the guide, and I offer suggestions, helping it flow, piece it together. Um, and he wanted to share a lot of his stories with me first before diving into the big outlining portion of it and allowing for the shifts and change because at first he wanted to do purely memoir, and now we want to extract from those memoirs the how-tos and like do a blend of those two. Um and so, yeah, so it's like it kind of depends. Um, someone else, um, it's very like focused on a short period of time. It's like these nine days that were really transformative, and so writing, you know, nine chapters and put it positioning it that way or formatting it, I kind of like to look at it as I like outlining, it's something I rebelled against for the longest time. Because I was like, people tell me how to do it. I'm like, no, it's just gonna flow. It's just gonna flow. But I love the masculine structure for the feminine to flow within. And so um that's kind of I I lean towards outlining and I lean towards outlining, especially with memoir oriented stories, like the events, like the who, what, when, where type of thing, coupled with like the internal and like the union of those two. Um, like the emotional shift, the aha's and and mapping those and like how do they marry one another and connect the dots. Um, so it just kind of depends. I would ask you about like, you know, who's your target client, who act target client, ideal reader. A lot of times people are routing to a younger version of themselves. Um, a lot of times it's like an ideal client that they um or archetype that they work with. Um it depends. So I would ask you like your ideal client, your um your big why, because your big why is gonna help glue that seat, um, your ass, your butt to the chair and show up on the journey and turn out pages. For what worked for me too was also like setting uh pages, like deadlines. I was very deadline oriented. So I was like, if I send 20, you know, 15 to 20 pages at a time, get notes on those, move forward to the next. It was like these like markers um that really helped me. I think I need that photograph. Yeah. Um, I loved it. It worked for me. It did not work for one of my clients. So it's like being flexible too, and open and receptive to like what works for one person isn't gonna work across the board. Right. Is there any like specific frame or um I address fears too? It's very in some ways, especially with memoir, it's very um, or I I have been gifted the opportunity in some ways to help illuminate um parts or pieces or um glorious, beautiful insights in people's lives that they haven't seen for themselves yet and help them think bigger. Yeah, I'm like a visual, like I visualize, I've always been a visionary type of person. So I'm like, let's write a letter from future you that's done the thing to present you today. Let's write a letter from a future, yeah, write a letter from a future reader. Let's um visualize you in that recording studio recording the audiobook, or maybe you get the gear at home. I wanted the experience of going to the studio because I was like, oh no, I'm here. Plus, I wanted someone to help me guide me through that audiobook process.

SPEAKER_00: 41:58

Okay, so I just had I just had a thought come through that it would be so powerful to write my outline, which I'm actually already doing because I'm going to take the outline from the Nava course that I'm creating right now. Yes, I want to hear about that too. I'm so excited. So I'm I'm making a course in Nava. And so from the Nava course, I'm going to basically I have a it's a 45-minute mini course. So I'm starting with that, and then I'm basically gonna take that course and just blow it up into my book. Beautiful, and I'm that that away harmony there. So my idea is as you were talking about that, go taking just the simple outline that I'm already creating and going into a studio and riffing and just stream because that's how I work best. I am a stream of consciousness, I speak really well, I'm able to move as things start to come up. And it takes harder for me to just sit and type. I'm very much a I want a voice to text kind of person, and so I'm imagining that we take a week or and I just take a week off, you know, one month, and then I have another month where we chew, and then I take another week off, and I just stream of consciousness, and then I workshop it during the month, and then I do another one, and I think that's gonna be it. Like I know my material inside and out, and the the goal or my big why is to teach people to quiet their mind and connect with the earth to create and live their best life, and and I know that this is going to be a transformational spiritual text for people, and that's my why. It's like people need they they need this information, it has been absolutely transformative for me, and it's what I teach every single person who works with me in private practice, and I can only work with so many people, exactly, and so to really be able to get this information out to the masses to continue to help support and change people's lives on an emotional, spiritual, physical level is what I'm here to do.

Kristin: 44:36

No, I definitely know it it brought that's beautiful, and it broadens the amount of impact that you can reach that you can have through the course. And then they and also they they can have like a companion for the course. Yeah, you know, depending. Um, I can also help in the editing process if or if you just want a set of eyes on it. Because sometimes whenever you're like super close to the material, it's good to have like that other set of eyes and like offer the notes and suggestions and like does it make sense because you are so close to the material and know it inside and out. I'm like, I don't know. How do we get from this step to this step? Because you know it in your mind, and but like, but I like let's let's just flesh this out right here a little bit more, or stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00: 45:21

Exactly. And I think that would be really useful because one thing that the content creator, one of the course content facilitators at NABA named Chris Fleck, he was like, just make sure that you're not talking over people's heads. Make sure that everything that I'm saying is understandable, digestible, and available to the spiritual beginner and the spiritually advanced. And that is a skill.

Kristin: 45:55

To be able to meet people on multiple parts of their journey or like whatever walk or you know moment or phase in life they're in. Yeah. That's cool. I actually have a call with Chris today. Me too. Really? Yeah, is that what you're calling after this? Okay, yeah. So I'm going to get acupuncture and then I'm having a call with him, but the first one. Um, so it's cool.

SPEAKER_00: 46:21

Are you teaching on ghostwriting?

Kristin: 46:23

I'm going to be make um so I I envision it being a twofer. I love like one too, like you can do two things and it accomplishes multiple things. Um memoir writing, um, like particularly around outlining and uh creating a path for intimacy with oneself. I think you'll you create that through memoir writing. Um, but I also like the idea of supporting writers and scribes in their writing journey to help outline the book writing process, or particularly for memoir, but it can also be applied to other aspects too. Um yeah, and I think a challenge for me that I is probably going to be distilling the amount of content that I into the 45 minutes. But uh we'll see. I've also been really leaning into this death rebirth singing, because with the mythology behind the right the Phoenix rising, a lot of people get in the burn and the rising, but they don't talk about the singing as much. And for me, that's sharing your story and your medicine, that's singing your song. Um, and there's varying degrees that people can sing their song. Like it's totally okay to keep your story within your family, it can be liberating and pass on your legacy or sell it. And if you have that desire to reach the masses and make massive impact, that's totally cool and liberating as well. And so it's like really just asking yourself what is right for you. Um, but I love like just like the Phoenix singing aspect of it. And because and through that journey too, it's like you also there's pieces that may die, there's pieces that may that you're giving birth in life to.

SPEAKER_00: 47:56

Exactly. My sister Kathleen, who's also a community builder at Nava, she is a professional singer and teaches people how to activate and bring their voice to life, specifically through song. And so one of the messages that I continue to get through plant medicine as well is the value of song and singing, literally singing our bringing our voice into the community, and when we sing together and we share who we really are with those who we love, that's how we remember our interconnectedness. And so I think there's something really beautiful and rich about this nugget that you're remembering about song and singing our stories on a physi on a actual singing and then also birthing and writing and creating our story. One interesting thing that I another message I received from ayahuasca was she said, okay, so she's very matter-of-fact with me. She says, So, you know, as a spiritual teacher that you are now, um, I don't want you sharing anything, absolutely nothing, that doesn't have a spiritual teaching.

Kristin: 49:20

Provides value.

unknown: 49:21

Whoa.

SPEAKER_00: 49:24

Okay, grandma. I'll do my best. I will do my best. That's all we can do.

unknown: 49:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 49:33

That's it.

Kristin: 49:34

It's one of the four groups. Yeah, I love, yes, yes. It looks different for different days. I love that too, right? Oh, for sure. Like today, I'm like, I was doing with Eleanor earlier. I'm like, I'm a melodial flight phase. I have a little couple notes ready to go, just in case I have a little brain fart moment. And um, I'm like, and I'm leaning into that dark chocolate moment after this call, you know, stuff like that. Definitely. Um yeah, no, uh, I loved that book. That was one of the most it was easy, but it was also profound at the same time. So kind of like speaking to like the NABA course creation stuff. It's like, how can we bring these concepts and make them easy to digest? And also like have those those are for it's a small book. I have the book right here. And but I'm like, if you're agreements, yes.

SPEAKER_00: 50:23

Um Don Miguel Ruiz is the author of the Four Agreements. If you don't know that book, highly recommend it. Um, he's a Mexican writer and spiritual teacher, and he has just some incredible teachings on love and how to live a really beautiful, peaceful life. He's done a really beautiful job with that book. The Four Agreements is one of the books I have all my clients read as soon as they sign up to work with me. It's a book that immediately gets shipped off to them.

Kristin: 50:59

Oh, beautiful. Like, I love that one. I love the mastery of love too. I believe that's the title.

SPEAKER_00: 51:03

Same.

Kristin: 51:04

Oh, that's a good one. It's on my Kindle. I'm like, uh, love it. Um, and then all those you can share all of those spiritual teachings in different ways. Like, some can be humorous, some can be like shorter concept or like you know, I just feel like you'll find a rhythm. I know it. I know you will. Like, I know it's coming, it's already coming, it's already here. It's already here. Yeah, it's here. But I love the idea and notion behind sharing stuff that's gonna provide value for people. Because like when we think about what we're consuming, are people gonna, you know, and a lot of people default to like social media for so many different avenues. I do want to contribute, I do want to provide things of value that like help raise consciousness, not not literally.

SPEAKER_00: 51:49

That's one of the most important things that we can be doing. Raising the the content creation to a high vibration, which literally with the words that we're writing. Oh my gosh. I have got to say the community of NABA, including meeting you, has been such a gift. I just want to shout out to this community. It's Kristen mentioned it at the beginning, but it stands for the natural art of being alive, and this is what we're doing. We are creating this natural art, and I'm pulling in as many of my beautiful people as I can because I'm also going to be doing a live course in Nava teaching about how to reconnect with the earth. And so there are ways that there's so much information that we have where it there's a lot of noise out there that is low vibration. Okay, what do I mean by low vibration?

Kristin: 52:53

Hate, fear, fear, fear inciting, propaganda, false information.

SPEAKER_00: 53:02

I mean, just think about what's available on Netflix for us to watch. It's like scary movies, drama with so much killing.

Kristin: 53:13

Oh, I can't do those anymore. I can't do that.

SPEAKER_00: 53:16

Like the the amount, the and I'm like, we're not to mention video games, I mean the amount of fear and toxic energy that we're putting out into I mean, it's terrifying. It's like all these stories that they have. It's like you're literally making a movie about it, which is creating this into reality. We are making reality out of the movies that we're creating. And Naba has a completely different lens of love and which is high vibration. Integrity, honesty, truth, really well-vetted content, in-person meetings, connections where we can get together and learn from each other and ask questions to the teachers who are making the content. I mean, my my ayahuasca journey was like NABA. We love NABA.

Kristin: 54:07

She was like beautiful. I'm like, I am I am like, I see the fish, I'm here for it. I mean, it's so beautiful. And like meeting you, that's just that is one of the beautiful things that has come from saying yes to NAVA and leaning in and like the way my life has opened up with just all these beautiful possibilities since I know since saying yes, like I came home from Egypt. I tell people I went to Egypt. The woman who went is not the woman who came home. And I'm like, and I was following the butterflies, and Nava came into my field through Veronica. And so I was like, I'm leaning in, it's being brought up to me for a reason. And um, and I was like, you know, I'd put in some intentions and prayers that, and I'm like, and it's been an answer to one of my prayers. And one of the best questions that I love that Aaron um proposed for um that I heard, I guess, at the pre-launch event, she's like, How can you be the answer to someone else's prayer? Well, maybe that's NABA, maybe that's your book, maybe that's your course. I there's just so I just love operating and moving into the world through that lens. Um very heart-centered. And that's what I think NABA is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 55:20

Me too. Yeah, I mean so grateful to know you. Thank you for the work that you do. Thank you. And I'm so looking forward to seeing how our lives will continue to weave together.

Kristin: 55:35

I want to know more about your work too. Oh, and I know I'm coming up on my heart out from for my acupuncture and for your call too, which is awesome. We're both caught chatting with Chris today. That's cool. Um, so it's shout out to Chris. Yes. Is there any um anything else that you want to share before we stop recording or any other little um points of connection that you want to drop? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 55:58

I want to invite us all to take a few deep breaths into the belly, breathing in for the count of seven, and breathing out for the count of nine. Go ahead and keep your breath going like this, just a few of them. And I just want to say a deep gratitude, a deep thank you to Kristen for this beautiful interview, and thank you all for listening. May each and every message that you hear be met with the highest vibration of love. May each word resonate in the way that it's meant to for each and every one of you. May we remember that we can be the answers to our own prayers and the prayers of others. And may we remember that we get to be the light. We get to be vibrating at that highest of a frequency, and those frequencies begin with our thoughts, our words, and our actions to bring people and ourselves and this beautiful planet that we get to call home back into alignment and harmony. This is my prayer, this is my gratitude. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I love you.

Kristin: 57:13

Thank you. That was beautiful. I almost interrupted the prayer and said, Mic drop. Because I was like, that's so beautiful. You can be the answer to your own prayer too. Thank you so much, Eleanor, for coming on, sharing your wisdom. I'm gonna include all the little points, uh, Instagram and novel links, all those things in the show notes, and connect, guys.

SPEAKER_00: 57:42

Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Sending love and looking forward to seeing how we can keep weaving on this journey together. This this art of life.